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Kingdom of Atenveldt Home Page

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Heraldic Submissions Page

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Atenveldt Submissions (excerpted from the S.C.A. College of Arms' Letters of Acceptance and Return)

ATENVELDT REGISTRATIONS by the College of Arms, August 2003:

Aldred Bertand. Name and device. Vert, on a bend between a goutte and a Latin cross bottony argent three roses gules.

Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Order name Order of the Flower of the Desert.

Submitted as Order of the Desert Flower, no documentation was submitted and none was found that a toponymic would have been used as an adjective in an order name in period. Lacking such evidence, this name was not registerable as submitted. Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/order/) dates the order name Star of the Noble House to 1351. This shows one example of a period order name constructed as [Item] of [Generic toponymic]. There are many period order names constructed as [Item] of [Placename] and many generic toponymics used in order names (most famously Temple and Hospital). Therefore, order names in the pattern [Item] of [Generic toponymic] are registerable, assuming that the item and generic toponymic are appropriate. Therefore, as the submitters allow any changes, we have changed this order name to Order of the Flower of the Desert in order to register this name.


Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Order name Order of the Pilgrim of the Desert.

Submitted as Order of the Desert Pilgrim, no documentation was submitted and none was found that a toponymic would have been used as an adjective in an order name in period. Lacking such evidence, this name was not registerable as submitted.

As the submitters allow any changes, we have changed this order name to Order of the Pilgrim of the Desert in order to register this name.


Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Order name Order of the Scarab and badge. Or, a scarab beetle vert and a bordure indented azure.

Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Order name Order of the Star of the Desert and badge. Per fess indented azure and argent, in chief four mullets of four points elongated palewise Or and in base a sun in splendor azure.

Submitted as Order of the Desert Star, no documentation was submitted and none was found that a toponymic would have been used as an adjective in an order name in period. Lacking such evidence, this name was not registerable as submitted. Meradudd Cethin's article "Project Ordensnamen OR What do you mean that the Anceint[sic] and Venerable Order of the Most Holy and Righteous Wombat's Toenail isn't period?" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/order/) dates the order name Star of the Noble House to 1351. This shows one example of a period order name constructed as [Item] of [Generic toponymic]. There are many period order names constructed as [Item] of [Placename] and many generic toponymics used in order names (most famously Temple and Hospital). Therefore, order names in the pattern [Item] of [Generic toponymic] are registerable, assuming that the item and generic toponymic are appropriate. Therefore, as the submitters allow any changes, we have changed this order name to Order of the Star of the Desert in order to register this name.

Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Badge (see RETURNS for order name Order of the Radiant Servants). Argent, a sun in splendor per saltire Or and azure and a bordure indented azure.

Aylwin Wyllowe. Device. Per chevron sable and vert, a bordure argent charged with three triquetras vert.

Brigit of Tir Ysgithr. Holding name and device (see RETURNS for name). Per bend purpure and Or, a butterfly Or and three columbines purpure slipped and leaved vert.

Submitted under the name Brigit inghean ui Chumaráin.

Clara of Mons Tonitrus. Holding name and device (see RETURNS for name). Purpure, an increscent and on a chief embattled argent three increscents purpure.

Submitted under the name Clara de La Mare.

Clarastella MacGregor. Name.

Diek Rabynovich. Name.

Dragos de la Severin. Name.

Submitted as Dragos Severin, Severin was documented as the name of a Romanian town. Commentary provided for a submission earlier this year showed that locative bynames in Romanian in period typically used de la before the name of the town: Submitted as Pavla Satu Marin, the LoI submitted Satu Marin as "a noun-based toponymic intended to mean 'Person of/from Satu-Mare'" and asked for assistance from the College for determining a proper construction for this byname. Nebuly provided information regarding period forms for bynames based on the location Satu Mare: The town of Satu Mare is mentioned in records dating from 1072 (Giurescu, p52). Judging by names in the chronology of rulers in the back of the book, locatives in Romanian may be formed as de la [placename] or [placename] + -escu. Since I do not know the grammar rules for adding-escu (or for creating its feminine form), and I have previously found period records using de la, I recommend Pavla de la Satu Mare as the best form for registration. [Pavla de la Satu Mare, March 2003 LoAR, Æthelmearc-A] Using the information provided by Nebuly, we have changed this byname to de la Severin in order to register this name.

Edric Longfellow. Badge. (Fieldless) Two stalks of barley in saltire within and conjoined to an annulet Or.

Edric Longfellow. Household name Haus Tagestërne and badge. (Fieldless) A mullet of four points gyronny sable and argent within and conjoined to an annulet argent.

Submitted as Tagstern, this submission had a number of problems. This household name was submitted as a constructed word using the modern German words tag 'day' and stern 'star'. No evidence was provided that tagstern is a word in modern German, much less a word used in period. Examples were cited for construction patterns for English inn sign names. However, evidence of a pattern in English is not evidence for the same pattern in German. Metron Ariston found an Old High German dictionary online that lists tagestërne as a word in Middle High German: The German parallel formation shown in Bahlow (Deutsches Namenlexikon, s.n. Stern), though undated, is Morgenstern. However, a quick look at the net found an on-line PDF version of an Old High German dictionary where under the letter T at www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/althochdeutscheswoerterbuch/ahdT.pdf I found the following entry: "tagessterno* 1, ahd., sw. M. (n): nhd. Morgenstern; ne. morning star; ÜG.: lat. (sidus lucis) N, stella diei N; Hw.: s. tagasterno*; Q.: N (1000); I.: Lüs. lat. Stella diei; E.: s. tag, sterno; W.: s. mhd. tagestërne, sw. M., Morgenstern; nhd. Tagesstern, M., Tagstern, DW 21, 72, 85". This entry shows that tagestërne is equivalent to Morgenstern. Aryanhwy merch Catmael found Morgenstern as an undated surname in Bahlow: Bahlow s.n. Morgen says "Morgenstern [morning star] (freq.) can also be interpreted as a house name. <Leydestern> 1327: the Pole Star." Brechenmacher (p. 286 s.n. Morgenstern) dates Dietrich M. to 1374 and Heinrich M. to 1460, showing forms of Morgenstern were used as surnames in period. Given the examples of Leydestern and Morgenstern dated to period, combined with the dictionary entry showing tagestërne as a Middle High German word with the same meaning as Morgenstern, it is plausible that Tagestërne could have been used as a surname in period.

As submitted, this household name included no designator, which is required for registration. The LoI noted: If required, the household indicator Haus may be added to the name (e.g., Tagsternhaus); this follows the naming practices seen in Hoffbrauhaus, a German brewery dated back to 1160 A.D. (http://www.hofbrauhaus-freising.de/). However, the element -haus in this example is not used in the manner of a designator. Koira explains: Also, _haus_ in Hofbräuhaus_ is not what we'd call a designator; rather, _Bräuhaus_ is the German word for Brewery, and the entire three-part compound glosses to _Royal Brewery. A household name formed from this hypothetical surname Tagestërne would take the form Haus Tagestërne. We have changed this household name to this form in order to register this name.

Finbarr Mathgamain mac Conchobair and Aífe Fael ingen Brénainn. Badge. Azure semy of compass stars, on a flame Or a crescent azure.

Please advise the submitter to have less overlap between the compass stars and the flames. In period armory, primary charges do at times overlap the surrounding strewn charges. However, because of the complex outline of this (period style) flame, and the fact that it is tinctured identically to the strewn charges which it overlaps, the overlap compromises the identfiability of both charge groups.

Gallant O'Driscole. Name (see RETURNS for device).

Submitted as Gallant O'Driscoll, the submitter requested authenticity for Irish. Gallant was documented as an English given name dating to 1210. Lacking evidence that it was used in Ireland in period, we were unable to make this name authentic according to the submitter's request. No evidence was provided to support O'Driscoll as an Anglicized Irish form used in period. Woulfe (p. 507 s.n. Ó Drisceóil) dates the Anglicized Irish form O Driscole to temp. Elizabeth I-James I. Anglicized Irish forms of Gaelic bynames in late period sometimes appeared with a space after O and sometimes with an apostrophe. Therefore, O'Driscole is a plausible Anglicized Irish form in late period. We have changed the byname to this form to partially meet the submitter's request for authenticity and to register this name.

Gavin Skot of Stirling. Name and device. Sable, in pale two swords in saltire argent and a standing balance Or.

Heleyne Scot of Motherwell. Name and device. Argent, in pale three thistles vert headed purpure between flaunches vert.As noted in the February 2003 LoAR, "The 'head' of the thistle is comprised of a ball of sepals with a tuft of petals at the top."

Ivan Petrovich. Device. Argent a pall inverted gules between two turtles and a single-horned anvil reversed sable.

The originally provided blazon was incorrect, and the Kingdom did not provide a letter of correction. However, enough commenters mentioned that they researched this submission under the correct tinctures and charges that we do not need to pend this for further conflict research.

Kathy of Tir Ysgithr. Holding name and device (see RETURNS for name). Argent, a tulip bendwise purpure slipped vert within a bordure indented purpure.

The tulip was originally blazoned as a Turkish tulip. However, this appears to be a reasonable variant of the standard tulip and needs not be explicitly blazoned. This particular stylization of a tulip is found in period Middle Eastern art.

Submitted under the name Johari al-Noori.

Lachlan McBean. Device. Argent, a bird's leg erased bendwise sinister sable sustaining a thistle bendwise proper.

This submission was pended from the January 2003 LoAR due to an incorrectly described tincture: the bird's leg was blazoned as proper. Note that a generic bird does not have a defined proper tincture. Please advise the submitter to draw the head of the thistle proper correctly. Both in the heraldic default and in nature, the round ball of sepals is green, and is topped with a tuft of petals which may be either purpure (as in this submission) or gules.

Natal'ia Diekova zhena Rabynovicha. Name.

Listed on the LoI as Natal'ia Dieka zhena Raynovicha, the form showed that this name was submitted as Natal'ia Dieka zhena Rabynovicha. We have made this correction. The submitter has a letter of permission for her name to presume a relationship with Diek Rabynovich, registered earlier in this LoAR. When indicating a 'wife of' relationship in a woman's name in Russian in period, her husband's given name takes on the same form as it would in a patronymic. For example, Wickenden (3rd ed., p. 202 s.n. Mariia) dates Mar'itsa Fedorova zhena Neelova to 1538-9. Therefore, a name meaning that Natal'ia is the wife of Diek Rabynovich would take the form Natal'ia Diekova zhena Rabynovicha. We have made this correction in order to register this name.

 

Sláine O'Connor. Device. Gules, a frog and a chief dovetailed Or.

 

 

ATENVELDT RETURNS by the College of Arms, August 2003:

Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Order name Order of the Radiant Servants.

No documentation was provided and none was found that Order of the Radiant Servants follows a period pattern of order names as required by RfS III.2.b.ii, which states in part that "Names of orders and awards must follow the patterns of the names of period orders and awards." Siren explains:

[I]n describing a pattern <adjective noun> and combining order names based on charges and order names based on religious artifacts in that pattern, Meredudd and Kwellend-Njal did us a bit of a disservice. There are really two distinct patterns. One is <color+charge>; in form these are like inn sign names. The other is complex desciptions of items of religious significance, using adjectives like "Precious" and "Holy." [...] Only a few order names do not fit in one of these two groups. Of them, a few fit the pattern <adj+knights>, where the adjective is really what we might call the order name (Knights Templar, Golden Knights, etc.). [T]he order names following this pattern either use a geographical location, a color adjective, or a trait such as "poor." The one more abstract example is <Angelical Knights>, which is again a religious reference. I'm not sure how <Radiant> is justifiable given these examples. As noted by Siren, the adjectives used to describe groups of people do not include attributes such as Radiant. Lacking evidence that Radiant Servants follows a period pattern used for order names, this order name is not registerable.

Brigit inghean ui Chumaráin. Name.

The byname inghean ui Chumaráin was submitted as a feminine form of Ó Cumaráin, which was documented from MacLysaght (p. 35 s.n. Cameron). No documentation was provided and none was found that the name Ó Cumaráin existed in period. Lacking such evidence, the submitted byname is not registerable. As the submitter only allows minor changes, and changing the language of the byname is a major change, we were unable to change this name from the Irish Gaelic inghean ui Chumaráin to the Scots Cameron in order to register this name. Her armory has been registered under the holding name Brigit of Tir Ysgithr.

Clara de La Mare. Name.

This name conflicts with Claire de la Mer registered in March 1991. Her armory has been registered under the holding name Clara of Mons Tonitrus.

Ena Weshen-eskey gav. Name.

This name combines an Anglicized Irish feminine given name with a Romany placename. However, no evidence was provided showing that Anglicized Irish and Romany were spoken in the same location in the same time period. Lacking such evidence, this lingual mix is not registerable as it does not meet RfS III.1, which states in part "As a rule of thumb, languages should be used together only if there was substantial contact between the cultures that spoke those languages [...] Each name as a whole should be compatible with the culture of a single time and place." Lacking evidence that Anglicized Irish speakers and Romany speakers had substantial contact in period, this combination is not registerable.

Additionally, there were problems with each element in this name.The information provided in the LoI for Ena was: Ena is found in Withycombe (3rd edition, p. 104) as a semi-Anglicization of the Irish feminine and masculine given name Eithne; O Corrain and Maguire corroborate this under Eithne (pp. 84-5), citing anglicized forms as Anne, Annie and Ena. However, this information does not support Ena as a period Anglicization of the Gaelic feminine given name Eithne. As noted by Metron Ariston: The anglicization noted in Ó Corráin and Maguire is undated and probably quite late. Withycombe's citation indicates that this anglicization became popular with the birth of an English princess in 1887 which is hardly evidence for period usage. Lacking evidence that Ena is a period Anglicized Irish form of the Gaelic Eithne, it is not registerable.

Weshen-eskey gav was documented as the Romany name for Epping, England. However, no evidence was found that this name dates to period. Further, no evidence was found that locative bynames were used in Romany in period. Either of these issues would be sufficient reason for return of this byname. As the submitter allows any changes, this name would be registerable as Eithne of Epping. However, it was generally felt that these changes were more substantial than is generally expected in a major change. Therefore, we are returning this name.

Gallant O'Driscole. Device. Per chevron vert and argent, two double-bitted axes argent and a compass rose sable.

In the full-sized emblazon, the annulet portion of the compass rose is drawn unacceptably thin: it is not an annulet but a single very thin line (one fine tip pen width wide on the full-sized form.) This is a reason for return in itself, as RfS VII.7.a requires that "Elements must be recognizable solely from their appearance", and elements drawn with such thin lines are too thin to be recognized. There was a significant discrepancy between the full-sized emblazon and the mini-emblazon. The mini-emblazon showed the compass star with a normally drawn annulet. In addition, the proportions of the per chevron field were different between the full-sized and mini-emblazons, although both depictions of a per chevron field are acceptable. A significant discrepancy between the full-sized and mini-emblazon can be reason for return in itself, and is certainly a reason for return when the mini-emblazon's depiction masks a significant style issue with the armory on the full-sized emblazon. The Administrative Handbook requirements for preparation of letters of intent state that "An accurate representation of each piece of submitted armory shall be included on the letter of intent." The Cover Letter for the April 2002 LoAR stated: In the last few months, there have been cases where the mini-emblazon included with the Letter of Intent did not accurately represent the emblazon on the submission form. If the emblazon does not match the form, the CoA cannot produce useful commentary, which in turn does not allow a decision on that item. The CoA has enough to review without commenting on the "wrong" item. A mismatch between the LoI emblazon and what is on the submission form can be reason for administrative return. If you produce LoIs, please double-check that the mini-emblazons on your letters are a good representation of the emblazons on the submission forms.

Johari al-Noori. Name.

No documentation was presented and none was found to support Johari as a name used in period. Further, no documentation was presented for the byname al-Noori at all. and the College found no evidence that it is a period byname. Lacking evidence that these name elements were used in period, this name is not registerable. Her armory has been registered under the holding name Kathy of Tir Ysgithr.


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