Kingdom of Atenveldt
Unto Their Royal Majesties Cosmo and Elzbieta; Dame Anita de Challis, Acting Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,
Greetings from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Parhelium Herald!
This is the July 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Presentation. It precedes the external Letter of Intent that will contain the following submissions that are presented here, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry and consultation. You can send commentary to me privately at firstname.lastname@example.org or join “Atenveldt Submissions Commentary” at Yahoo!
( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Atenveldt_Submissions_Commentary/ ) and post there. (Any commentary is likely be included in the next month's Letter of Presentation so that all may learn from it, and we can see how additional documentation or comments may have influenced a submission.) Please have commentary to me by 10 August 2009.
June Heraldry Hut: Stefania Krakowska, Herald for the Shire of Iron Wood Loch, and Helena de Argentoune, Deputy Parhelium Herald, both attended the June meeting. There were clients attending from Tir Ysgithr, Mons Tonitrus and Wealhhnutu (in spite of the weather!).
Tir Ysgithr Arts Nights: I ran a Consultation Table at Arts Night on 8 July; unfortunately, it rained cats and dogs and little fishes, so the turn-out was minimal.
Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too: atensubmissions.nexiliscom.com.
College of Arms Actions: results of the April 2009 S.C.A. College of Arms meetings (submissions found in the 30 December 2008 Atenveldt Letter of Intent) can be found at the end of this report.
Please consider the following submissions for the August 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:
Crespin Le Vasseur (Tir Ysgithr) NEW NAME
The name is French. Crespin is a masculine given name dated to 1592 in “Names Found in Ambleny Registers 1578-1616
by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan ( http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/Ambleny/MascGivenNamesFreq.shtml ). Le Vasseur is dated to 1594 in the same source ( http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/Ambleny/SurnamesFreq.shtml ). The client desires a male name, is more interest in a French name from the late 16th C (specifically 1590s) and will not accept Major changes to the name.
Ívarr haukr (Sundragon): NEW DEVICE
Gules, a hawk stooping Or between three arrows argent.
The name appears in the 20 June 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent.
Lily Del Sol (Barony of Atenveldt): NAME and DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, March 2004
Ermines, a phoenix displayed gules charged with a fleur-de-lys argent.
The original name submission, Lilyana ingen Hallmurain Mac Fhlannchaidh, was returned for questions/clarification on what was submitted as an Irish Gaelic name.
The original device submission, Vert, a compass star azure fimbriated argent., was returned for multiple conflicts.
Documentation for the given name included photocopies of information on the flower, citations of the name Lily from the SCA Armorial and a Order of Precedence listing from Atlantia, and two online sources (Behind the Name and Geocities Heartland Hills). Documentation for the byname included information on the history of various Temples of the Sun in the New World. (The pounding sound you hear...)
That being said, according to Withycombe, “Lily” names probably derive from Elizabeth and the German variant Lili; Lily, as a “flower name” used for women, arises in the 19th C. You can see the variations of the name in English in “Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames,” Talan Gwynek ( http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/ ).
The closest I can find for the byname is Dal Sol, found in Arval Benicoeur and Talan Gwynek's "Fourteenth Century Venetian Personal Names" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/venice14/ venice14sur.html), as a "locative, perhaps 'from the clearing'." Trying to find it as a Spanish name element, to match what has been submitted comes up with a Jewish feminine name, simply a Sol. I'd find it hard to believe that someone would be named after a temple, particularly a rather “generic” name or reference for such a structure or place; I will be cheerfully corrected if information to the contrary can be found. The client desires a female name and will not accept Major or Minor Changes to the name.
The blazon given is as it appears on the submission forms. The forms have been electronically colored as well.
Melissa de Monstrum Aula (Barony of Atenveldt): CHANGE OF HOLDING NAME from “Melissa of Atenveldt”
Originally submitted as Melissa of Monster Hall, the submission was returned by Laurel in January 2009 for lack of documentation that of Monster Hall is a plausible English locative byname. The LoI documented it as part of a household name registered in January 1973. However, the past registration of the household name does not provide any support for the current registerability of of Monster Hall unless the submitter is a close legal relative of the owner of the household name Monsters of Monster Hall. No evidence was provided that she is, so she cannot claim the grandfather clause: “Karl Thorgeirsson of Wolfstar. No documentation was submitted and none found to suggest that Wolfstar is registerable. Wolfstar is a household name registered in December 1986. Its use here is in the form of a locative byname, but no documentation was submitted and none supplied by the commenters to suggest that it is a reasonable place name in any language compatible with the other parts of the name. If the submitter was a close legal relation (marriage, blood, or adoption) to someone who had this element registered as a byname, then it would be registerable to him via the grandfather clause. However, no documentation was submitted showing that he is eligible for the grandfather clause in this case. Barring documentation that Wolfstar is registerable as part of a name under the current rules for submission (such as via the grandfather clause or through new documentation showing it is a documented byname), it is not registerable. [LoAR 04/2008]”
“While the commenters were able to find examples of English place names of the form <place name in English> + hall, including Latymerhall 1360 and Stanewey halle 1430, in Sharon L. Krossa, "A Brief, Incomplete, and Rather Stopgap Article about European Household and Other Group Names Before 1600", no one was able to find any evidence that Monster is a plausible English place name. Lacking such evidence, or alternate documentation that Monster Hall is a plausible English place name, the byname of Monster Hall is not registerable without appeal to the grandfather clause. Her device was registered under the holding name Melissa of Atenveldt. Melissa is the submitter's legal given name.”
The byname is Latin “Monster Court/Hall”. Were this rendered into correct Latin, I believe it would be closer to Aulae Monstri (Hall of the Monster) or Aulae Monstrorum (Hall of Monsters). Aula appears in Italian as “room, hall,” and the Italian for “monster” is monstro. I don't know Italian, but that would likely use a particle like di or maybe della (these elements aren't found in Latin).
The bigger question is whether this would be an appropriate byname in either language. One of the restored villas in Pompeii is referred to as “House of the Faun,” but that is a name given to it by archaeologists for the art found there rather than what it was referred to by its original owners. The client will settle for the holding name, but I think this is an attempt to try and find something less generic and something closer to her household's name.
Mikael Thorson inn irski (Mons Tonitrus): NEW DEVICE
Azure, within a mullet voided and interlaced within and conjoined to an annulet argent a Thor's hammer Or.
The name appears in the 25 March 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent.
The ban on mullets voided and interlaced within and conjoined to annulets was overturned by Laurel in March 2009. This conflicts with the badge submission of 14: Elyn de Hauocmore: Azure, a mullet voided and interlaced, within and conjoined to an annulet argent., which appears in the 15 June 2009 Caid Letter of Intent. However, Elyn also provides a Blanket Letter of Permission to Conflict with her badge, so adding the Thor's hammer, as 1 CD, clears the conflict.
Natal'ia Diekova vdova Rabynovicha (Granite Mountain): NEW NAME CHANGE from Natal'ia Diekova zhena Rabynovicha
The original name, Natal'ia Diekova zhena Rabynovicha, was registered August 2003. The name change means Natal'ia, widow of Diek Rabynovich. She consulted with Paul Wickenden of Thanet to find the construction that comes closest to her registered name (which means Natal'ia wife of Diek Rabynovich) and he suggested this. This is corroborated in his paper “"A Chicken Is Not A Bird": Feminine Personal Names in Medieval Russia” ( http://www.goldschp.net/archive/femnames.html ). The client desires a female name, and is most interested in the meaning (as the widow of Diek Rabynovich). She will not accept Major changes to the name. If registered, the currently-registered name should be released.
Nest verch Rodri ap Madyn (Mons Tontritus): NEW DEVICE CHANGE
Per bend sinister azure and vert, a mullet voided and interlaced within and conjoined to an annulet argent and an open book Or.
The name was registered February 2009.
The ban on mullets voided and interlaced within and conjoined to annulets was overturned by Laurel in March 2009. If registered, the client wishes to release her currently-registered device, Azure, a sagittary passant and on a chief argent three crescents azure. (Awwwww...anyone interested in a really cool piece of armory? ;)
Osric of Blæcwōd (Barony of Atenveldt): CHANGE OF HOLDING NAME from “Osric of Atenveldt”
The original name submission, Osric of Blakwode, was returned for being two steps from period practice. “First, it combines the Old English Osric with the Middle English Blakwode. Second, there is a more than 300 year gap between the latest date we have found for Osric (950 according to charter S 552a in Sean Miller's "Anglo-Saxon Charters" (http://www.anglo-saxons.net/hwaet/?do=show&page=Charters) and the earliest date we found a form of the byname (Ekwall, The Oxford Dictionary of English Placenames, has Blakwod in 1280). While the name does appear in Shakespeare's Hamlet, this play was not published until after 1600, nor was evidence found that it was performed before that 1600. This makes the name Osric unregisterable as a literary name from that play.”
The client is using the citation named for documenting Osric. Blæcwōd is a coined locative byname, combining blaec, “black,” and wōd, “wood.” Reaney and Wilson demonstrate a similar byname Blackston, Blackstrode, and Blackthorn, all which come from the element blæc (p. 47, s.n. Blackston, Blackstrode and Blackthorn).
Unfortunately, Old English citations under the surname Wood suggest that wōd is the OE word for “frenzied, wild,” and similar “wood” names cite OE wudu for “wood,” as found in trees and timber (p. 499). Yikes. There is definitely a shift in the 12th C from OE to Middle English, and in the explanation of the name Woodcock (p. 499), it seems that “wild” and “wood” meaning are getting fuzzed up a bit. The client desires a male name, and is most interested in the meaning and spelling of the name. He will not accept Major changes to the name. (I don't know if he'd like Blæcwudu.) Any insights are appreciated.
The following submissions appear in the July 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:
This month's commentary is provided by Bjorn mjoksiglandi [Bm], Helena de Argentoune [HdA], Maridonna Benvenuti [MB], Sine Fergusson of Kintyre [SFK], and Marta [MMM].
Adaleide de Warewic (Wealhhnutu): NEW BADGE: (Fieldless)
A tower per pale azure and gules.
Possible conflict with the Barony of Dun Or's badge, registered in 1995: (Fieldless) A tower per pale Or and azure. I see only one CD. Also College of Saint Joan, 1991: (Fieldless) A tower per pale erminois and gules. [Bm]
I don't see a conflict here. There's one CD for fieldless vs. fieldless + another for change of 1/2 of charge tincture. 2 CDs --> clear. [HdA]
Nice and simple. [SFK]
Antoinette Isabeau du Dauphiné (Granite Mountain): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, November 2008
Azure, on a pale wavy sable fimbriated between two dolphins haurient respectant three fleurs-de-lys argent.
The name was registered March 2009.
The original submission, with the identical blazon, was returned because a period wavy ordinary always drawn “in sync,” and not as "wavy counter wavy" or "bretessed,” as it appeared in the original submission. From the July 1992 LoAR, p.17: "This sort of wavy ordinary, with the waves opposed instead of parallel ('wavy bretessed' instead of 'wavy-counter-wavy'), was returned on the LoAR of Dec 91 [That return was for Catherine the Merry.] as a non-period depiction." [Andrew Quintero, 09/99, R-Atenveldt]. Based on this, and finding no subsequent Precedent that overturns this one, the device will need to be returned.” The client has corrected the wavy and made the fleurs-de-lys more recognizable as such.
Dalla of the Misty Forest (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW DEVICE CHANGE:
Per pall argent, azure and vert, in pale a stag's attires sable and a tree eradicated argent.
The client has agreed that the stag's attires be sable, as “proper” ones are ivory/argent and thus create a tincture problem.
Elnor Howard (Wealhhnutu): NEW NAME and DEVICE:
Per fess azure and Or, three hawks' lures Or and a hawk striking gules.
Name was conflict checked and no conflicts found. The documentation for both the given and surname are with in a year to two years of earliest found is awesome in my book. Nice name too. [SFK]
I might put the hawk above the lures, but this is a nice device, with everything big and bold and discernible. [Bm]
I suspect that we need to include the arrangement of the hawk's lures in the blazon; they are "in fess." No conflicts found. Checked both "birds, stooping to dexter" and "birds, rising to dexter." [HdA] I'd like to think three charges in this part of the field would be in fess, but I think that should be included in the blazon. Nice and clear. [MMM]
Els Wolffleinin (Brymstone): NEW NAME and DEVICE:
Azure, a bend sinister vert fimbriated between an otter statant and two escallops argent.
Name was conflict checked and no conflicts found. Again documentation for the given and surname are within a year of each other. Noting the source of the said documentation I would just make sure that all the appropriate pages are printed before sending to Laurel as they are not part of Appendix H. Nice German Name. [SFK]
Again, nice and bold, with everything discernible. I might turn the otter about, so it's headed for the yummy scallops, but it works this way, too. [BM]
Device was conflict checked and no conflicts found. I like purdy picture. :) [SFK]
John Fair of Hawkwode (Wealhhnutu): NEW DEVICE and BADGE
(Device) Per bend sinister Or and argent, a bend sinister gules between a hawk close contourny guardant and three oak trees eradicated proper.
(Badge) Vert, a hunting horn argent and in chief an arrow fesswise Or.
name was registered July 2006.
(Badge) To my eye, the horn is definitely the primary charge and the arrow the secondary/peripheral one, hence blazoning the horn first.
Tabitha de Pengelly (Sundragon): NEW NAME and DEVICE:
Argent, three penguins statant affronty heads to dexter sable bellied argent and on a chief purpure a cat couchant Or.
Names from Stratford-On-Avon and Solihull, County Warwick, females, (Stratford, births 1558-1652; Solihull, births 1539-1668).
Created by Douglas Galbi. http://www.galbithink.org/names/stratsol.txt linked through the Medieval Names Archive lists on example of Tabitha dated to 1596. There are 299 years between the dated examples of by name and given name; very close. [MB]
Love the cant! If the artist chose to take further liberties and depict the cat with stripes in shades of gold (like a "tabby" cat), this would include a cant on the nickname "Tabby" as well. I believe use of penguins is a step from period practice, but I think that's the only one. [HdA]
Cute design. [SFK]
Awww... cute! I see that there are a number of penguins registered in the roll of arms, but were they actually known in period in Europe? I suppose Magellan might have seen them, but...? [Bm]
I think I remember reading at a trip to SeaWorld that only 20% of the world's penguin species are arctic birds (hey, I learned something, other than watching the manatees getting' jiggy with each other, and hearing some little girl shouting to her mother, “That's a boy walrus! I can see his wee-wee!”.); that puts a lot of them in the Southern Hemisphere's temperate zones. While it is unlikely the average European would've encountered a penguin, Magellan's 1591-1520 voyage hugged the eastern edge of South America, and likely saw these creatures. The Magellan penguin (named in honor of the explorer, not necessarily by him) is common in the Falkland Islands – as the Falklands are nearly 800 west of the South American mainland, I don't know if Magellan actually dropped anchor there.
A shorter answer is that the College of Arms considers the use of a penguin as a charge one step from period practice. [MMM]
Thome Spyle Syngere (Atenveldt): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, July 2008
Per pale raguly sable and argent, a skeleton statant facing to sinister maintaining a recorder and a skeleton statant to dexter maintaining a lute, all counterchanged.
The name was registered July 2008.
The original submission, Per pale sable and argent, a skeleton statant facing to sinister maintaining a recorder and a skeleton statant to dexter maintaining a lute, all counterchanged., was returned “as it appears to be impaled arms. As ruled in the December 2007 Cover Letter, "if a divided field contains the same type of charge in each portion, and those charges maintain the same [type] of charge, then the maintained charges do not contribute to the appearance of marshalling." The ruling goes on to give a counter-example of Quarterly sable and argent, in bend a lion Or maintaining a sword argent and a lion Or maintaining a halberd argent, where the different types of maintained charges do yield the appearance of marshalling.
“Similarly, in the submitted device, although the primary charges on either side of the per pale line are the same type (skeletons), their maintained charges differ. Thus, the maintained charges do contribute to the appearance of marshalling and are cause for return of the device.”
Using a complex line of division resolves this problem.
Tvoislava Michelovna (Sundragon): NEW BADGE:
Per bend sinister argent and argent goutty de larmes, on a bend sinister azure three roses argent and in chief a theaded needle bendwise sinister inverted sable.
A little busy, but acceptable. [Bm]
The roses on the bend sinister are a little small, but they are still recognizable. [HdA]
Vésteinn Þorkelsson (Twin Moons): NEW DEVICE: Gyronny arrondi gules and argent, a wolf passant sable with a borudre sable semy of Thor's hammers argent.
The Thor's Hammers in the border are awfully small, and I don't know that they'd be visible on the battlefield. On the other hand, the wolf passant sable is only currently present in three registered devices, and none of them are even close to likeness with this one, so it should be fine.[Bm]
The hammers are a little small, even for tertiary charges, and look a little like "tops" (the kind you spin) as a result. No conflicts found. Checked against "beast, dog, passant/courant/statant." Closest is Grace of Fairhaven: Checky argent and gules, a wolf passant within a bordure sable. There's 1 CD for changes to the field + 1 CD for adding the charges to the bordure = 2 CDs -- > Clear. [HdA]
Device was conflict checked and
no conflicts found. I too found that the Thor's hammers where too
small and too many. I would suggest that perhaps the number of
hammers to make them semy and larger so they can be seen.
The following submissions were returned by the Atenveldt CoH for further work, July 2009:
Isabella Evangelista (Windale): NEW BADGE:
Per pale ermine and checky gules and Or.
This is busy, the checky is tiny and fussy, and it's busy. However, I don't see that it breaks any rules. Did I mention it's busy? [BM]
Unfortunately, this submission marshalls the protected Arms of Brittany with "chequey, gules and Or" and is thus unregisterable. Usually, two plain fields can be placed together on either side of a per pale division and registered as "we do not protect plain tinctures." However, the arms of Brittany are "Ermine.",and thus are not registerable in this arrangement. In addition, "checky gules and Or" is not a plain tincture and could be registered as field-primary armory in it's own right.* (The flag of Libya, "Vert," is also protected, but, as this is a "flag" and not "armory" it is not protected from being marshalled. The arma of Brittany ARE "armory," however, and thus may not be used in marshalled context.)
The following submissions have been registered by the S.C.A. College of Arms, April 2009:
Beatriz Teixeyra Drago. Name (see RETURNS for device).
The submitter requested authenticity for 16th C Portuguese. While a name with just one given name and one byname would be much more typical for this period, the name is authentic as submitted.
The LoI cited Aryanhwy merch Catmael, "Portuguese Names From Lisbon, 1565"
(http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/portuguese/lisbon1565.html), for the byname Teixeyra, but did not provide printouts of the relevant pages of the website. This website does not have a URL beginning http://heraldry.sca.org/, so it is not listed on Appendix H of the Administrative Handbook. Pelican was able to confirm the information in the article, and so we are able to register this name. However, we remind submissions heralds that failure to provide the required copies of non-Appendix H sources is grounds for return.
Per chevron azure and argent, a tree blasted and eradicated counterchanged.
Please instruct the submitter to draw the per chevron line steeper, so that the point rises well above the center of the device.
Submitted as Edeline du Diekirch_, there were two problems with the byname. First, French locative bynames based on proper city names following the pattern de 'of' + <place name>. The use of du, which is a contraction of de le 'of the', is only appropriate when the proper name of the city is of the form Le X. Second, no documentation was provided for Diekirch as a period form of the city name. Siren notes that "La Belgique et les Pays-Bas, by Antoine Guillaume Bernard Schayes (E. Devroye, 1859) dates the spelling <Dickirche> to 1266 and <Dieckirque> to 1270. A spelling like <Diekirche> seems to me to also be plausible in the 13th c." We have changed the name to Edeline de Diekirche to correct the grammar and match the available documentation so that we can register it.
The LoI cited Talan Gwynek, "Late Sixteenth Century English Given Names" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/eng16/), for the given name Jerome, but did not provide any printouts of the relevant pages of the website. This website does not have a URL beginning http://heraldry.sca.org/, so it is not listed on Appendix H of the Administrative Handbook. Pelican was able to confirm the information in the article, and so we are able to register this name. However, we remind submissions heralds that failure to provide the required copies of non-Appendix H sources is grounds for return.
The submitter requested authenticity for Germany. All of the elements can be dated to the late 15th C in Baden-Wuerttemberg and Nuernberg. The use of two given names is unusual, but not unheard of in this period.
Submitted as Seamus mac Raibert, this was a resubmission, identical to the previous, of a name returned on the July 2008 LoAR, where Laurel ruled:
This is returned for administrative reasons: No summary of the documentation was provided on the LoI, and no name submission can be considered without a proper summary. Because this is an administrative return, we are explicitly not addressing the registerability or authenticity of the name at this time.
This resubmission provided the following documentation:
Documentation for both elements of the name are found in Black's The Surnames of Scotland.
Seamus is the Scots Gaelic version of James, p. 382 s.n. James.
Raibert is the Scots Gaelic form of Robert, p. 695 s.n. Robert.
The construction of the name follows the guidelines seen in "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names Formerly Published as "Quick and Easy Gaelic Bynames," 3rd Edition, Sharon L. Krossa ( http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/#simplepatronymicbyname ), for a simple patronymic byname.
The client desires this particular combination of name elements, as his legal given name is James and his father's given name is Robert.
This is not an adequate summary. As the December 2008 Cover Letter says, in part: “For each different source being cited, the following information should be provided:...A brief quote or comment indicating what the source says about the name element.”
This is especially crucial for books such as Black, which often contain explicitly modern, and unregisterable spellings. Precedent says: “Submitted as Seamus MacEanruig, the surname was documented from Black, The Surnames of Scotland. Gaelic names found in Black, including dated names found in the text, are nearly always modern normalized forms. The exception to this are Gaelic names cited from the Book of Deer and the 1467 MS, which appear in the form found in the original manuscripts. Without a second source showing that these forms are found in period, they are not registerable. [Seamus Mac Enrig, LoAR 09/2006]”
Without a brief quote or comment indicating what Black says about the names Seamus and Raibert, it is impossible for the commenters to determine from the LoI alone whether these Gaelic forms are registerable per this precedent. None of the commenters were able to find any evidence that Raibert is a period Gaelic spelling; only modern examples were found. Lacking such evidence, it is not registerable.
Siren [Herald] provides alternative documentation for a similar name:
Effrick's "Historical Name Generator" (http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/hng16gaelic/) gives the late period form as <Seamus mac Roibeird>.
We have changed the name to Seamus mac Roibeird in order to register it.
The submitter requested authenticity for 12th-14th C Scottish Gaelic. The earliest evidence for Seamus in Scottish Gaelic that we have is from the 15th C. We therefore cannot confirm that this name is authentic for the 12th-14th C.
Listed on the LoI as Umm Ma'bad Amirah al-Zahra bint_'Abd al-Aziz al-Azhar ibn Malik ibn_Mansur, this form of the name was taken from Laurel's recommendation in the previous return, in July 2008. However, in that recommended form, the underscores were used just to emphasize the difference between the submitted form and the recommended form, and not as part of the name. We have removed them in order to register the name.
Additionally, the previously recommended form contained a small error; in order to use a uniform transcription system throughout the name, the laqab al-Zahra should be transliterated al-Zahra', to match Ma'bad. We have also made this correction.
Submitted under the name Willelmus cum manu.
The following submissions have been returned by the College of Arms for further work, April 2009:
Beatriz Teixeyra Drago. Device. Gules, a flame and on a chief Or three gouts azure.
This is returned because the primary charge is not identifiable. Guesses from commentary included a shallot, an onion, and a bulb of garlic.
Conflict with Willelmus Mann (registered September 2008). Prepositions such as cum do not contribute to difference, and the change of a single letter, from Mann to manu, is not a significant difference in appearance. His device was registered under the holding name Willelmus of Brymstone.
Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy
c/o Linda Miku
2527 East 3rd Street
Tucson AZ 85716