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Kingdom of Atenveldt Home Page

Kingdom of Atenveldt
Heraldic Submissions Page

(administered by the Brickbat Herald)


Unto Their Royal Majesties Cosmo and Elzbieta; Dame Anita de Challis, Acting Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,

Greetings of the New Year from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Parhelium Herald!

This is the May 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Presentation. It precedes the external Letter of Intent that will contain the following submissions that are presented here, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry and consultation. You can send commentary to me privately at or join “Atenveldt Submissions Commentary” at Yahoo! ( ) and post there. (Any commentary is likely be included in the next month's Letter of Presentation so that all may learn from it, and we can see how additional documentation or comments may have influenced a submission.) Please have commentary to me by 10 June 2009.

Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too:

Consultation Table at Kingdom Collegium: There will be an Heraldic Consultation Table at Kingdom Collegium on Saturday only (6 June 2009). It will run most of the day (I'll be doing classes on Beginning Onomastics and Beginning Armory for the first two hours, but the Table will be running after that). If you want to stop by and chat, check on submissions, steer a client in that direction, and yes, even be on the “heralds' side” of the Table, I'd love to see you and have your hands and expertise at the ready!

Please consider the following submissions for the June 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

Ælfwin Ironhair (?) (Granholme): NEW HOUSEHOLD NAME “Terra Scorpiae” and NEW BADGE

Per pale gules and Or, two scorpions counterchanged.

The household name is Latin for “Land of Scorpions”. The clients wish the name to be medieval (13th-15th C.) Latin, and all changed are permissible to have the name reflect this. The household does need to be registered to an individual, with “David of Granholme” and “Michael of Granholme” listed. However, neither of these names are registered. I will contact Ælfwin (who sent in the submission) and see if she'll accept the registration until it can be transferred.

Aneirin Peaboadie (Sundragon): NAME RESUBMISSION from Laurel November 1989, and DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel March 1990

Gyronny of six per pale sable and argent, on a chief gules a griffin segreant contourny Or.

This submission has a long history, running from the mid-1980s to 1990 (all of it will be forwarded to Laurel). The last return of the name had the following commentary: “The name had previously been submitted as "Aneirin Ynis Peaboadie" and been returned by Laurel because of the use of "Ynis" in an inappropriate manner with the note that the closest period given name form we could find was "Ynyr". This resubmission modifies the first given name unacceptably by dropping the final "i". It also uses a totally undocumented form "Yryn" as its second element. As the submittor again allows no changes to his name, the submission must be returned.”

I think the new documentation is the most cogent, and it follows:

Aneirin: attributed name of 6th C. Welsh poet. The name itself is found in a 13th copy of a 9th C. book which collected the works of that poet (which were oral tradition prior to the 9th C.). ["The Book of Aneirin: Cardiff MS 2.81," ] A similar Welsh masculine name, Anerain, is found in a 13th C. Welsh tax roll. [Academy of Saint Gabriel Report #2127, , author Josh Mittleman, source cited in article: [3] Jones, Francis "The Subsidy of 1292 [covering Abergavenny and Cilgerran]" in the Bulletin of the Board of Celtic Studies, 13 (1950):210-230). ]
Peaboadie: English surname. (Helena de Argentoune (consulting Herald) has been unable to document the form of (Peaboadie” to pre-1600 and would appreciate any help from the College to do so as it is the submitters preferred form.) The form "Pabodie" is found in a 1565 birth record for "John Pabodie" and again in a 1590 English birth record for a son, "John Pabodie," born in England and who later died in Masschusettes after moving to The Colonies. The same individual (the son, who died in 1667) spelled his own name as "Paybody" in his will, but also spelled the name of relatives as "Pabodie" in that same document. John Pabodie/Paybody's life is fairly well documented in papers about daily life in and around the Plymouth colony in Massachusettes. (Tax records, court documents, bills of sale/purchase of land, and wills)
The submitter prefers the name "Aneirin Peaboadie." If the name is not registerable as submitted, his second choice for a given name is "Anerain" and his second choice for a surname is "Pabodie." The submitter will allow any spelling changes to make the name registerable but would like it to sound close to "an-air-in pay-bo-dee (long A, long O, long E)." He prefers the "ie" spelling on the end of the surname over the "y" on the end of the surname. He will accept the "y" ending for the surname if necessary for registration.

On the submitted forms, the name is Aneirin Ynyr Peaboadie, and Ynyr is struck through; was this the intention of the client? The College of Arms asks that any changes on the forms be noted as to why the changes were made, and that the client is aware of them. (I'm fairly sure Aneirin dropped the element himself, but being able to send this information on would be a good thing, and an included Submission History notes that client is requesting registration of the name Aneirn (sic) Ynyr Peaboadie.)

The previous device submission, Gyronny per pale of six sable and argent, on a chief gules a griffin segreant to sinister Or., was returned for the following reasons: “A previous return of this device for conflict with Durnhardt of Altenau ("Chequy sable and argent, on a chief gules a water bouget Or.") was appealed on the grounds that the field division as blazoned by the submittor ("Per fess gules and gyronny per pale of six sable and argent") is a valid period division and that the reblazon alone creates the technical conflict. Unfortunately, there is a long­standing precedent in the Society that the blazon used does not affect a conflict between two emblazons. (That is what we mean when we say the picture, not the words used to describe that picture, are what is protected.) In period heraldry and in most modern heraldic circles, the field division shown here would be considered tantamount to a field with a charged chief since it is customary to expand the dimensions of the chief to accommodate the size of the charge placed upon it. In other words, a chief with a lion passant will be narrower than one with a lion rampant. This phenomenon appears commonly through period rolls of arms and is even commented on by period and modern authors (usually in discussions of the size relationships of ordinaries and their diminutives). In this case, the depiction is identical to that which would have been used for a plain field with a chief charged with a rampant beast. That being the case, this is a conflict with Durnhardt under both old and new rules: there is a major point or visual difference for the difference in field division. However, the minor given under the old rules for the change in type of tertiary would not have cleared the conflict even under the old rules since both are Society devices and there is a definite conflict under the new rules.”

Under current Rules for Submission, this is clear of original conflict with Durnhardt of Altenau: Checky sable and argent, on a chief gules a water bouget Or. Since both armories are simple with no more than two types of charges on the field (even though only the new armory must met these conditions, both do in this case), there’s 1 CD for changes to the field and1 CD for changing type of tertiary. This is clear with 2 CDs.

Galen MacKintoch (Tir Ysgithr): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, December 2008

Sable, a bend vert fimbriated Or, in sinister chief a wing terminating in a hand sustaining a sword bendwise argent.

The name was registered November 2007.

The previous submission, Sable, a bend abased Or charged with a bendlet vert, in sinister chief a wing terminating in a hand sustaining a sword bendwise argent, was returned “for using a motif not found in period heraldry. The original return of this device, in January 2008, said "If this is resubmitted with a bend abased, the submitter should be prepared to argue why a bend abased charged with a bendlet should be allowed." The submitter has failed to do so. The only statement to that effect on the LoI was a reference to a 2002 registration of the same motif being registered, and the statement that it was registered without comment. It has long been policy that prior registration is no guarantee of future registerability and that registrations without comment do not set precedent. Section III.B.1 of the Admin Handbook requires that "Once registered, an item shall be protected until written notice of release is received by the Laurel Office from the owner,", so we are unable to overturn registrations resulting from mistakes, but we are unwilling to be forced to continue making the same mistakes.

“Commenters questioned whether the bend, sword, and wing are co-primary charges. If they are, this submission would be in violation of Section VIII.1.a, which says that "As another guideline, three or more types of charges should not be used in the same group." Since we are returning this submission for the above reason, it is not necessary to decide this issue at this time. Please instruct the submitter that any resubmission of this motif, with documentation for the bend abased, should be drawn so that the bend, wing, and sword are clearly not a single co-primary group.

The client is centering the bend, which should eliminate all concerns brought up.

Zhigmun' Broghammer (Tir Ysgithr): TWO NEW BADGES

(Fieldless) An ermine spot azure, ermined Or.

(Fieldless) A sinister wing terminating in a talon azure maintaining an ermine spot fesswise Or.

The name was registered March 2000.

The client really, really likes ermine spots. He is also using elements and tincture2 from his registered device, Erminois, a Caucasian frauenadler displayed proper crined and feathered sable all within a bordure azure.

The following submissions appear in the May 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

This month's commentary is provided by Bronwen o Gydweli, White Antelope Herald [BoG], Helena de Argentoune [HdA], Katherine Throckmorton [KT], Kedivor Tal mab Cadwgan [KtmC], Maridonna Benvenuti [MB], Rohese de Dinan, Red Hawk Herald, Calontir [RdD] and Séamus mac Ríáin.

Aodhan McKie (Twin Moons): NEW NAME, DEVICE and BADGE

Lozengy gules and Or, a smith's hammer surmounted by a key bendwise sable.

(Fieldless) A smith's hammer surmounted by a key bendwise sable.

Aodhán is a male Irish Gaelic name found in Ó Corráin and Maguire, pp. 13-14, s.n. Áedán, the more “modern” form of Áedán; it has been registered in this form (without the diacritcal marks) as recently as 2003 and 2004. McKie is found in Black's Surnames of Scotland, p. 528. (The Atenveldt CoH's copy of Black went missing after Estrella, so I can't elaborate with dates.)

Although the name is registerable as is, it could easily be made wholly Scots by using one of the Scots forms of the name, either Aed or Aodh. Given the dates on the desired spelling of McKie, Aodh would be the most appropriate. [KT]

OCM is no longer adequate documentation by itself.  In this case, the modern form has been chosen.  That having been said, the spelling Aodhan is found in the annals dated to 761, 777, 823, and 843.  This puts it as 2 weirdnesses, since there is one between the spelling Aodhan and McKie for temporal differences, and one for Gaelic vs. Scots. A fully Gaelic form (pre-1200), would be Áedán mac Áeda.  The name is pronounced as though spelled Ian Mackie. [RdD]

Additional correspondence with heralds on the SCAHRLDS listserv and with the client have really muddied this up. The client responds “...yes, the AID-en Mac Kee pronunciation works nicely, the spelling can be put in a thumbscrew until it resembles a slinky. I'm really even ok with a minor difference in sound like "kigh" rather than "kee", mostly because if it has to work in that way, I can still call myself Mckee with a straight face.” As a result, the sound is the most important aspect of the name.

Carolina Nanni (Ered Sul): NEW NAME and BADGE: Azure, four swords in cross points outward proper within an annulet Or.

Unfortunately, none of the submitted documentation demonstrates that 'Carolina' is a *period* diminutive of Carla, nor could I find Carolina in the MNA . [KT]

Nanni - Additional docs. 'Dizionario Storico – Blasonico delle Famiglie Nobili e Notabili Italiane Estinte e Fiorenti'. G. B. di Crollalanza (1886). No ISBN. Reprint.S.n. Nanni (family from Bologna and from Padua) lists a Floriano in the military in 1518.S.n. Nanni (family from Rimini) lists Ottaviano was the grand treasurer of the Order of St. Stefano in 1593. [MB]

As it happens, although Caroline is on the list of names not suitable for SCA use, I can document it to period and just after, in England. I have been recording the names, places and dates from the following reference book: The Index Library, Published by The British Record Society Volume 1: Northamptonshire and Rutland Wills , A Calendar of Wills  Relating to the Counties of Northampton and Rutland Proved in the Court of the Archdeacon of Northampton 1510-1652, Edited by W.P.W. Phillimore, MA, BCL, Queen's College, Oxford London: Chas. J. Clark, 4, Lincoln's Inn Fields, Northampton: Taylor & Son, The Dryden Press Boston, Mass., U.S.A.: Cupples & Hird 1888 University of Iowa Library Catalogue Call Number:  CS434 B7 v. 1  

Section W (wills probated in 1590 and 1597-1602): Caroline Robinson of Denton

Section AV (wills probated 1621-1628): Caroline Larrett

Section unnumbered - Original wills probated 1603-1660: Caroline Skynner of Orlingbury - will probated 1645

I can provide photocopies upon request (if the library hasn't sent this to the bookbinders -- it was in bad physical shape when I had it out). The names seem to have been lightly normalized, probably by the scribes creating the calendar during period. Since these are wills, it seems certain that the first person, Caroline Robinson, must have been born during period to be able to make a will by 1602 at the latest.

English and Italian is a weirdness. However, there is precedent for using Carolina as an Italian name: “Carolina of Milan. Name and device. Argent semy of icicles, a daffodil plant vert with two blossoms Or. “The given name was submitted as Caroline, which does not appear to be a period name (see for example the 4/95 return of Karolyne Wanderer (Caid)). However, De Felice notes Carola as a mediæval form, and Harpy provided period Venetian examples of diminutives in -ina from independent given names (e.g., Pasqualina); this is enough support to justify Carolina as a possible period Italian given name. The name could be made entirely Italian as Carolina da Milano.” ( ).

I think the citation for Nanni is from De Felice, not De Feline. [MB] I'm sure it's De Felice :) Many, many thanks for the information! [MMM]

I believe the black lines on the annulet are intended to represent “rope.” It might be good to double-check with her.

Closest is: Quintin de Fontenay: Azure, three swords in pall, pommels to center, proper.; 1 CD for number from 3 to 4 + 1 CD for adding the annulet = 2 CDs à Clear. [HdA] Correspondence with the client does affirm that the annulet markings are to represent rope. [MMM]

Johannes Cunctator (Tir Ysgithr): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, April 2009

Per chevron throughout gules and Or, two arrows inverted in chevron Or and a roundel per fess embowed counterembowed argent and sable.

The name appears in the April 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent.

The submission was held so that the client could be contacted and asked how he preferred the line of division rendered. He likes it Per chevron throughout... It have been given a smaller angle so that the arrows can be increased in size and the roundel reduced slightly, making the primary charges a little more visually equal.

John Ailewurde (Twin Moons): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Per pale vert and gules, in pale three wolves dormant argent.

Reaney & Wilson; English Surnames; P.21; s.n. Aylward reads: Aylward, Ailward: Godric filius Æilwardi c1095 Bury (Sf); Egelwardus 1126-7 Holme (Nf); Ailwardus presbiter 1153-68 ib.; Robert Ailward’ 1201 P (Ha); Robertus Ailwardi 1229 Cl (Gl); Nicholas Eylward 1243 AssSo. OE Æðelweard ‘noble protector’, DB Aegelward, Ailward v. also ALLWARD.

So something close might be an unmarked patronymic form.

Eckwall; English Place-Names; P.19; s.n. Aylworth reads: Aylworth Gl [Ailewrde DB, Eyleworth 1220 Fees, Eileworth 1230 Cl]. Apparently ‘Ægla’s worp’. Ægla may be a side-form of Ægel; cf. AILSWORTH.

No mention of the exact form he submitted though. [BoG] John Ailewurde is the exact form that he submitted. [MMM]

Consider Derrick of Kent: Per chevron enhanced gules and sable, in base in pale three wolves couchant argent.

We definitely would get one CD for changes to the field, and I believe we would get a second for the unforced move of the wolves to base. – though with the chevron enhanced that’s harder to call since they wouldn’t be moved that far. [BoG] On the other hand, an unforced move is an unforced move is an unforced move: consider Kazimer Valentov: Per chevron inverted sable and azure, in chief a tree blasted and eradicated argent., registered August 2007, vs. Ioseph of Locksley, the Rhymer: Vert, a tree eradicated argent., registered in 1973. There is a CD for the change of field and another CD for the unforced move of the tree to chief. (Thanks to Helena for citing this.) [MMM]

Ruadhán mac Aoidh (Twin Moons): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Sable, a wagon wheel and on a chief argent three hourglasses sable.

It appears to me to be correctly formed and I believe it to be clear of Ruaidrí Mac Aoidh, name registered in August of 2002 (via AEthelmearc). The given names would be pronounced differently, but the question is whether or not the two names differ enough in ‘appearance’ to be clear. I’ve run across this issue before, and am just not 100% sure. [BoG]

Consider Henry Forlong de Falconhurst: Azure, a Catherine's wheel and on a chief argent three hurts.

One CD for changes to the field, and a second for multiple changes (type and tincture) to the tertiaries. Clear.


Maximilian der Zauber: Gules, a cogwheel, on a chief argent a dragon passant sable.

One CD for changes to the field, and a second for multiple changes (type and number) to the tertiary). Clear.[BoG]

Tabitha Whitewolf (Atenveldt): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, December 2008

Gules, a wolf rampant argent queue-forchy between three four-leaved clovers Or.

The name was registered December 2008.

The original submission, Gules, a wolf rampant argent queue-forchy of lions tails between three four-leaved clovers Or., was returned for a redraw, as the secondary charges were not identifiable from any distance as clovers, violating Section VII..7.a of the Rules for Submission, which requires that "all items must be recognizable solely from their appearance." It was also suggested that the wolf be drawn with lupine tails rather than leonine, to promote recognizability; the client has provided a nice queue-forchy (as bushy as possible) of lupine tails.

Torren the Pathmaker (Iron Wood Loch): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, March 2009

Azure, a bend wavy cotised wavy argent between a rooster, crowing and wings elevated, and a bear's pawprint Or

The name appears in the March 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent.

The original submission, Azure, a bend wavy argent between a rooster, crowing and wings elevated, and a bear's pawprint Or., was returned for conflict with Mór Fhionn: Azure, a bend wavy argent between two mullets Or. There is only 1 CD for type of secondaries. Cotising the bend clears the conflict.

Wolfgar beytill (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME

Off the top of my head the only reference to this name I know of is a character in the Forgotten Realms novels by Salvatore. Is it possible this could fall under plausible name construction following period examples? Or is that not an option anymore with the rules change? [KtmC]

I think that the incomprehensibilty of the name makes it less offensive, but others may disagree. I can't find Wolfgar, but the Viking Answer lady has the similarly pronounced: Úlfgeirr [KT]

Wulfgar is an Old English masculine given name. It is demonstrated a number of times in the PASE Database, part of the Prosopography of Anglo-Sazon England; this is a database of individuals mentioned in pre-Conquest English documents ( ). The Wulfgars listed there date roughly from 826 to 1030. [MMM]

I hope to see many of you at the Kingdom Collegium!

Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy

c/o Linda Miku

2527 East 3rd Street

Tucson AZ 85716

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