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Kingdom of Atenveldt Home Page

Kingdom of Atenveldt
Heraldic Submissions Page

(administered by the Brickbat Herald)


Unto Their Royal Majesties Cosmo Kraven and Mary; the Honourable Lord Seamus McDaid, Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,

Greetings of the New Year from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Parhelium Herald!

This is the May 2006 internal Atenveldt Letter of Presentation. It precedes the external LoI that will contain the following submissions that are presented here, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry and consultation for names and armory: Please have comments or questions to me concerning this Letter by 15 June 2006.

Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too:

Heraldry Hut: The next Heraldry Hut will be Friday, 16 June, beginning at 7:30 PM.

Please consider the following submissions for the June 2006 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

Aethelfaeda Bosch (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per fess sable and checky azure and argent, in chief an hourglass fesswise argent sanded Or.

While dates were provided for elements of the name (Aethelfaeda was the daughter of Alfred the Great, c. 900; Hieronymus Bosch was a Dutch painter, c. 1450-1516), no citation from which these dates were taken was listed. Aethelfaeda is dated b. 945-d. unknown in; the dates of Bosch’s life are found at This information needs to be included on the submission forms. I might not doubt the veracity, but others will. That being said, there is more than a 300 year span between the name elements, which constitutes one step from period practice. I would tend to believe that there is one step from period practice between Anglo-Saxon/OE name elements and Dutch, and if this is the case, the name will have to be returned. (If that’s the case, the client might want to look at some of the Low Lands names lists at the Medieval Names Archive and consider a completely Dutch name.) The client is most interested in the sound of the name.

The original blazon had incorrectly blazoned the field as Per pale...; I fixed that, but I’d tend to blazon the charges as an hourglass fesswise argent, the glass per fess argent and Or.

Carras Sabran (Tir Ysgithr): NEW DEVICE

Per pall inverted purpure, sable and argent, two hemlock flowers argent seeded Or and a sheaf of three arrows inverted purpure.

The name appears in the 31 May 2006 Atenveldt Letter of Intent.

Celestria de Braunston (Sundragon): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, October 2005

Per pale azure and sable, a pale betweeen a natural dolphin hauriant contourny and a Catherine wheel argent.

The name was registered February 2006.

The original submission, Per bend sinister argent and sable, a bendlet sinister enhanced gules and in dexter chief a Brendan’s cross sable., was returned for use of a non-period charge (and the single use of a diminutive as a charge – this needs to be corrected on the current submission, too).

Ciar nic Eoghan (Windale): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per fess embattled argent and vert, a bee proper and a rose argent.

The name is Irish Gaelic. Both elements are found in Ó Corráin and Maguire, p. 51 (Ciar as a feminine given name and saint’s name) and pp. 87-88 (Eoghan as a more modern form of the masculine given name Eógan). “Index of Names in Irish Annals,” Mari Elspeth nic Bryan

( ) date Ciar to 679 and 681, so that the earlier version of the patronymic might be more accurate: the Middle Irish Gaelic is Eógan (c900-c1200), and is Eógain in the genitive form, while the Early Modern Irish Gaelic is Eoghan (c1200-c1700), and is Eoghain in the genitive form. The patronymic particle should be inghean (“Quick and Easy Gaelic Names," 3rd Edition, Sharon L. Krossa, ), so that Ciar inghean Eógain should be fine. The client is more interested in the language/culture of the name and wishes it to be authentic for the language/culture of a 13th-14th C. Irish women. She will not accept major changes to the name.

Donwenna Dwn (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per chevron gules and sable, three walnuts in fess Or and a triskelion argent.

The name is Welsh. Donwenna is the name of a 5th C. Welsh saint ( ). Dwn is cited as a “byname of coloring,” meaning “dark,” in CA #66 “A Welsh Miscellany,” Heather Rose Jones, p. 32. The client is most interested in the meaning of the name.

Iosif Volchkov (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

The name is Russian. Iosif is the Russianization of the Hebrew given name Joseph; this particular spelling is dated to 1541 (“Paul Goldschmidt's Dictionary of Period Russian Names,” ). Volchkov is the patronymic form of the masculine given name Volk, dated from 1448 (ibid, ); one given name form, Volchko, dates to 1393. The construction of the patronymic here seems reasonable if using the base form Volchko. The client is most interested in the language/culture of the name and wishes it to be accurate for Russian language/culture.

Livia Alexandra Severa (Atenveldt): NAME and DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, March 2005

Gyronny gules and ermine, a cobra coiled and erect affronty

The original name, identical to that above, was returned as neither Alexandra or Alexander show up in any of the lists of Roman names (Livia Severa would be completely documentable). Reviewing the classical Roman tri-part name ( ):

praenomen (a personal name which distinguishes one from other members of the family; a person is not normally be called by the praenomen on its own: normally only close relatives or very close friends call each other by their praenomen alone. There are only a small number of praenomina in ordinary use (about 18), and Livius is not one of them;

nomen (an indication which gens (a loose collection of families sharing the same nomen) one belongs to. Livius (with the feminine form Livia) is a documented nomen. “Girls were simply given their father's nomen, feminized, and sometimes a cognomen or a nickname such as a diminutive of her father's nomen or cognomen.” ( ).

cognomen (a family name which would be shared by blood relatives. Cognomina often refer to a person's appearance or other characteristics, but they do not have to. It is quite common to have a cognomen referring to a place of birth, a job, or some other thing which distinguished the person (usually an ancestor) who first bore that cognomen.) Otacilia Severa, Augusta 244 - 249 A.D., was the wife of Philip I; very little is known of her, but it is believed she survived her husband's murder ( ). Severa appears to the be cognomen of the lady.

This doesn’t leave much leeway for Alexandra (which was the issue with the original submission); she provides a citation from Seutonius’ Lives of the Caesars that demonstrates Tiberius Alexander, prefect of Egypt, during the time of the emperor Vespasian. It would seem that for this fellow, Tiberius is his praenomen (one of those very few), and Alexander his cognomen (perhaps a reference to the famous Greek or to the city by that name in Egypt); notes that when addressing a nobleman by two names, it is proper to use his praenomen and his cognomen, which would be the case here. Now, it is possible that this man eventually had offspring and they could’ve inherited his cognomen, as Alexander and Alexandra (I guess that would be the Latinization of a non-Latin name). Occasionally double cognomina are seen (which would be the argument for the double cognomina Alexandra Severa), although this would be very rare for a woman; women were usually known by two name elements alone. The client is most interested in the sound of the name and wishes it authentic for the language/culture; she will not accept major changes to the name (bear in mind that moving the name elements around is considered a major change).

The original submission, Gules, within an orle gemel sale and gules, a cobra coiled and erect affronty sable on a center ermine, a bordure wavy ermine., was returned for tincture violation and other stylistic issues. This is a redesign.

Ogedai Qara (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME

The name is Mongolian, with both elements found in “Mongolian Naming Practices,” Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy. Ogedai is a masculine given name, and Qara is a descriptive, “black, dark.”

Osric Maximilian Vom Schwarzwald (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Or, on a pall inverted sable between two dragons combattant and a third dormant gules, a pall inverted Or.

The name is German. Osric was a king of Northumbria, c. 729 (again, no citation was included for this information, although it is found at ). Maxilimilian I of Habsburg (1459-1519) was a Holy Roman Emperor (no citation included). The byname means “of the Black Forest”; this byname has been registered several times by the College of Arms, and the vom article (or alternately von dem) appears to be the most accurate construction). Again, by sheer dates alone, there is a 300-year separation between Osric and Maximilian (although the name Osric is applied to a minor character in Shakespeare’s Hamlet). The client is more interest in the sound of the name and is interested in having the name accurate for Germanic language/culture; he will not accept major changes to the name.

Rebecca de Estella y Mallorca (Twin Moons): NEW NAME, DEVICE, and BADGE

(device) Gules, a domestic cat couchant gardant and a chief argent.

(badge) Gules, a domestic cat couchant gardant and a bordure argent.

The name is Spanish. Rebecca is the client’s legal given name. She is interested in a byname that incorporates elements of her parents’ SCA names, Raffaelle de Mallorca (registered June 1995) and Isabel de Estella (registered June 1995). Estella is a town in southwestern Navarre

( ) . Mallorca is one of the Balearic Islands in the Mediterranean, inhabited by a procession of cultures (the Carthiginians, Romans, Byzantines, Moors) ( ).

Ysabel de Rouen (Twin Moons): NEW JOINT HOUSEHOLD NAME “House Blade and Bone” and NEW HOUSEHOLD BADGE

Per pale purpure and sable, in saltire a bone argent surmounting a sword Or.

The personal name appears in the May 2006 Atenveldt Letter of Intent.

The household name follows inn-sign names of two nouns seen with the Bear and Harrow in “English Sign Names,” Mari Elspeth nic Bryan

( ). The client also provides documentation for Lamb and Flag (pre-1600) and Eagle and Child (dating to 1642) (in the Scholar’s Guide to Oxford, ), and for Hoops and Grapes (possibly dating to the 13th C.) ( ).

Thes items are to be registered jointly with Gawayn Langknyf, (as yet unregistered).

The following appear in the May 2006 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

This month’s commentary is provided by Ari Ansson [AA], Aryanhwy merch Catmael [AmC], Ástríðr Þórgeirsdóttir [AÞ], Helena de Agentoune [HdA], Knute Hvitabjörn [KH], and Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy [MMM].

Beatrix Losier (Atenveldt): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, March 2005: Per chevron gules and argent, in base a willow tree eradicated proper, a bordure vert.

I assume the "argent and argent" is supposed to be gules and argent as the original submission. Otherwise it looks fine and I can't find any conflicts. [AA, HdA] Erk, missed that...thanks, folks! [MMM]

This isn't eradicated. It doesn't show the entire root system. It only shows the surface roots, which is the default for trees. [KH] I think it shows enough of the fingerlike roots to be considered eradicated. [MMM]

Elaria filia Robert (Brymstone): NEW BADGE: (fieldless) A leaf Or.

Lots of commentary for such a little leaf!

This is clear of Winifred de Schyppewallebotham (reg. 12/1990 via the East), "(Fieldless) A linden leaf bendwise sinister Or," with a CD for fieldlessness and one for the orientation of the leaf; clear of Karl von Schattenburg (reg. 08/1996 via the Outlands), "(Fieldless) A seeblatt Or," with one CD for fieldlessness, and one for type. However, this probably conflicts with Caerthe, Barony of (reg. 08/1989 via the Outlands), "Sable, an aspen leaf inverted Or," with just one CD for the field - given that aspen leafs are basically symmetrical around their horizontal axis, there may technically be a CD for orientation but this may still conflict by X.5. I recommend sending it up for a Wreath decision. [AmC]

(Consider) Andreanna Innes, (Fieldless) On a bay leaf Or, a garb purpure. A bay leaf seems to be very visually similar to the leaf shown, but I count one CD for adding the charge on a charge and one for fieldlessness. It seems to be clear. [AA]

Alternate blazon: (fieldless) An aspen leaf Or. [a seeblatt vs an aspen leaf inverted] Since an aspen leaf is not a period heraldic charge, the difference between an aspen leaf inverted and a seeblatt must be determined on visual grounds per RfS X.4.e. There is sufficient visual difference between these two charges for a CD. A seeblatt is a heart-shaped leaf with the tip of the leaf to the base of the shield, and with some sort of notch (often, but not always, trefoil-shaped) taken out of the part of the leaf which is to chief. An aspen leaf inverted is also a leaf with the tip of the leaf to the base of the shield, but it has a very distinct stem issuant to chief rather than a notch removed from the leaf. [Auriana Maria Ravenstein, 06/03, R-Meridies] Precedents - François, under Leaf. Given this, Aislynn Crystyn: Purpure, a seeblatt inverted Or.; CD fieldless, CD type of primary. Clear. [KH]

On the question as to whether this conflicts with the registered badge of Leia di Capraia, (fieldless) A card pique Or.: Based on the precedent that a bird is a bird is a bird, I would say that a leaf is a leaf is a leaf, and a spade or club is a stylized leaf. [AÞ] "Quentin de Rougemont. Device. Argent, a card pique gules. Conflict with a badge of the Canton of Copper Tree, Argent, a crabapple leaf gules. A crab apple leaf (as per this emblazon, and for that matter, the local apple tree) is a standard leaf shape (slim pointed oval) with a finely serrated edge. A crab apple leaf appears to be a non-

period charge and thus, under RfS X.4.e, the difference from a card pique must be determined on visual grounds. There is significant difference (a CD) between this leaf shape and a card pique but not substantial (RfS X.2) difference." [LoAR 11/2003] Given that a standard generic leaf IS a period charge, this even more so should have a CD for type. [AmC, HdA]

Gepa of Sundragon (Sundragon): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, April 2006: Azure, a bull statant contourny regardant within an orle argent.

The name appears in the April 2006 Atenveldt Letter of Intent.

The original submission, Azure, a bull statant regardant argent., was returned for conflict and redrawing.

Gwynneth Wenche of Wight (Windale): NEW DEVICE CHANGE: Per bend vert and azure, a bend bevilled argent between two maple leaves Or.

Lots of colors here – could this be simplified to use the same color for the bend and the leaves? [AÞ]

Looks like the name will probably have to be returned, and the arms too, given this precedent from the 11/2005 LoAR (Atlantia-R): "Lidia de Ragusa. Device. Per bend sinister bevilled azure and argent, a sun in splendor Or and a fox passant azure. "This is returned for using two dissimilar charges on a field bevilled. As precedent states: "Even the documented per bend bevilled cannot, by Laurel precedent, be used with dissimilar charges. Legh, Accidences [sic] of Armory (1586), asserts that the field should not be charged at all. We have, as one step beyond period practice, allowed the field to be used with a single type of simple charge. The submitted device, however, would be at least two steps beyond period practice. [Béla Kós, 02/01, R-Outlands]" [AmC] I’ve decided to send this on, as this is slightly different in design from the return cited; it is the ordinary, not the field, that is bevilled, and the secondaries at least have the luxury of being identical charges. [MMM]

Marquise Sabran (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME

The name is French. Marquise is a feminine given name dated to 1511 and found in “Given Names from Brittany, 1384-1600,” Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn ( ); in the context of the source, it appears to be used as a given name rather than a title. Sabran is found in Dauzat as a primary French surname, p. 533. The client is most interested in the language/culture of the name and wishes it authentic for French. She will not accept major changes to the name.

Looking at there are plenty of names such as Rei, Reina, and Ray that are also used as titles. Marquise is actually not on that list of alternate titles used in the SCA and other titles such as variations on Caesar (a title used by Roman emperors) are used often enough without questioning it. [AA]

Examples of <Marquise> as a given name can also be found in my "Late Period French Feminine Names" ( which has it once in 1536. Do we know what the origin of <Sabran> is? If it's a place name, this may fall afoul of RfS VI.1 "Names documented to have been used in period may be used, even if they were derived from titles, provided there is no suggestion of territorial claim or explicit assertion of rank." [AmC] Sabran is indeed a region and village in eastern France, which creates the problem that Aryanhwy mentions. The Chapel of the Templars is located in the domain of Boussargues and is dedicated to St. Symphorien. In Combe, the Chapel of St. Julien de Pistrin (12th century) is currently being restored, as is the Chapel of Sabran (12th C). The lords of Sabran were allied with the great families of France, but the only historical traces that remain are the ruins of the castle

( ). [MMM]

There has been extensive consultation with the client, and Sabran is the most important element of the name. She has found the French name Carras in Morlet, Étymologique de Noms de Famille (p. 174, s.n. Carre). It appears to me and to several members of the College of Arms on SCAHRLDS listserve that both Carre and Carras are French surnames rather than a personal/given name, but she wishes to have the name submitted as Carras Sabran. In the event that Carras cannot be demonstrated as a period given name, she will grudgingly accept the English feminine given name Charis (both are pronounce kar-is); while originally from the Greek, Charis appears subsequent to the Reformation, and Charissa, found in Spenser’s Faerie Queen, is a Latinized form of the name (Withycombe, 3rd edition, p. 62). Charis was registered as recently as January 2002 (Charis Percehay) without comment. (Thanks to Katherine for asking the list-serve folks for help on this.)

Medb McLeod (Mons Tonitrus): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, February 2006: Per saltire Or and gules, in pale two lotus blossoms in profile and in fess two dragonflies counterchanged.

The name was registered February 2006.

The original device submission, identical in blazon to this, was returned for a redraw as the majority of commenters were unable to identify the lotus blossoms as such.

Sythe Blackwolfe (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Vert, on a roundel between three equal-armed Celtic crosses argent a wolf sejant ululant sable.

This is actually an incorrect identification on the part of Karen - <Sythe> is actually a feminine name, unrelated to <Seth>, but rather from an as-yet-unidentified Old English name, possible <Sigegy{dh}>. Some other examples include the following (all from marriage registers): (Most of the names in this list are Latinized.) 25 Nov 1599 Michael Claton = Sitha Tomson; 1 May 1604 Xpopherus Conn = Sitha Dawson; 10 Feb 1601* Leonard Richinson = Sythe Hawell (The names in this list generally are not Latinized, so <Sitha> here may represent the vernacular.) 17 Nov 1612 Peter Vickars = Sitha Sheill 6 Oct 1601 Richard Burrell = Sithe Elwine; 25 Jul 1609 Christofer Shawe = Syth Thompson 26 Apr 1607 John Smith = Sithe Couper (The names in this list generally are not Latinized.) 15 May 1606 William Smith = Sithea Headlam 7 Nov 1601 Robertt Hall = Sythe Baynbricke 30 Nov 1602 John Mayson = Sythe Eland [AmC]

The cross arms need to be longer. This blurs the distinction between a Celtic cross and a Norse sun cross. Return for violating RfS VII.7.a. [KH]

Ursula Woodsholme (Twin Moons): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Argent, on a fess embattled vert between two mullets sable a greyhound courant argent.

<Ursula> can be found once in my "Index of Names in the 1582 Subsidy Roll of London" ( <Woodsholme> is a reasonable English surname; Smith s.v. holmr says that "in compounds, it is found mostly with (i) the names of plants and crops, as Brackenholm (brakni), Bromholm (brom), Dockholm (docce), Grssoms (gres), Haverholme (hafri), Heigholme (heg), Soffham (sef)." These are, respectively, ON 'bracken, fern'; OE 'broom'; OE 'dock', possibly 'water-lily'; OE, ON 'grass'; ON 'oats'; OE 'hay, mowing grass'; ON 'sedge, rush' (Smith, A.H., English Place-Name Elements (Cambridge: At the University Press, 1956). So this demonstrates that both ON and OE words were combined with ON <holmr>. And Watts s.n. Woodseaves (from <wood> + <eaves>) notes the possessive <s> in <Wodseves> 1548 (Cambridge Dictionary of English Place-Names, Based on the Collections of the English Place-Name Society, Edited by Victor Watts, Edited in association with John Insley, Margaret Gelling (Cambridge University Press: January 2004). Finally, my "Index of Names in the 1541 Subsidy Roll of London" ( has <Woodshawe>, and my "16th C Gloucestershire Names" ( has <Woodshall>, so <Woodsholm> or <Woodsholme> seems entirely reasonable. [AmC]

William Sinclair (Florence AZ): NEW NAME

No conflicts found; good name.[AmC]

Ysabel de Rouen (Twin Moons): NEW NAME

The following are returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds for further work, May 2006:

Alistrina Ballach Ben Grumper (Windale): NEW NAME CHANGE from Gwynneth Wenche of Wight

The best source (and its not great) that I could find is an extraction of names from Personal Names of the Isle of Man (London: Oxford University Press 1937 J.J.Kneen) located online ( There is no mention of when the name was used, other than mentioning that it is derived from Alexandra. Ballach is mentioned several times on the Society of Gabriel as a descriptive byname meaning "freckled" (

Grumper (or at least something similar to it) has been registered recently. Alaric Grümper was registered in January of 2002 (via Atenveldt). When it was registered, the LoI refers to it as a German name ( "Grümper is a German surname, "from Grümpen" (Bahlow, p. 189)." The name appears to combine incompatible elements, unless I am missing some good references somewhere. Combining Manx and Irish names isn't an issue, but Manx, Irish, and German...I think it needs work. [AA]

Concerning the name <Alistryna>, Effrick said on SCA-heralds last year: "I don't have one, but I am willing to bet you won't find any form of it in the British Isles prior to the 18th or 19th century (and quite possibly not anywhere in the world prior to then). The Scottish tradition of adding <-ina> or <-ena> to most any male name to make a female name began well post period, so you can't use it to historically justify creating such <-ina> names for SCA period. And I don't know that the fashion ever gained currency in Ireland. (Which is to say, you need to find an actual example of it in period, not speculate that it is plausible on general construction principles.)" And Tangwystyl said: "It's basically derived from "Alexander+ina". I searched long and hard for early examples of it for a client once and failed to find anything pre-modern. There was a major post-period fad in Scotland for creating new feminine names in "-ina", and I suspect it's the likeliest origin of this name. (There are also period names ending in "-ina" -- it's one of the standard Latin adjectival suffixes.)" <Ballach> is an Irish Gaelic descriptive found 18 times between 1315 and 1498 in Mari's "Index of Names in Irish Annals: Masculine Descriptive Bynames" (; it means "freckled". For a woman, it would be spelled <Bhallach>. The Early Modern Irish Gaelic word <bean> means 'wife', and combined with a masculine name (lenited & in the genitive case), would be a fine byname. However, I have no evidence that <Grumper> is a reasonable Gaelic man's name. [AmC] Given the lack of dated documentation for the given name and the evidence for Grumper as a period Gaelic masculine name, this has to be returned. [MMM]

William Sinclair: NEW DEVICE: Sable, a sword inverted argent entwined by a rose gules slipped and leaved vert.

I don't see a rose anywhere in the arms; this looks to be just like a vine. A rose gules slipped and leaved vert has inadequate contrast with the field, so this would not be registerable anyway. In any case, this conflicts with Balthazar Thornguard (reg. 04/1988 via the East), "Sable, a sword inverted argent, the blade enflamed proper," with one CD for the enflaming. [AmC]

By my count the device conflicts with "Balthazar Thornguard, Sable, a sword inverted argent, the blade enflamed proper." with just one CD for being enflamed. [AA, HdA]

Consider Adrienne of Toledo: Sable, in pale a cinquefoil, a crescent, and a dagger inverted, all argent., single CD for number of primaries. Balthazar Thornguard: Sable, a sword inverted argent, the blade enflamed proper., possible CD for the enflaming. Bjarni Thorvarsson of Hillstead: Sable, a sword inverted proper, overall a serpent fesswise, bodylooped, heads on either end and addorsed, Or., single CD for the overall charge. Calontir, Kingdom of: Sable, a cross of Calatrava elongated in base so as to form a sword inverted, within a bordure argent., and István László: Sable, a sword between in chief two skulls argent vested of jester's caps belled Or., and Robert Leavenworth: Sable, a dagger inverted argent beneath three sharks embowed in chevron Or. and Uta von Mainz: Sable, a sword inverted between the two halves of a broken chain fesswise abased argent., single CDs for the secondaries. Michael Colquhoun: Sable, a winged sword inverted wings elevated argent.; single CD for the wings. Return for multiple conflicts [KH]

Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy

c/o Linda Miku

2527 East 3rd Street, Tucson AZ 85716


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