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Kingdom of Atenveldt Home Page

Kingdom of Atenveldt
Heraldic Submissions Page

(administered by the Brickbat Herald)


Unto Their Royal Majesties Edward and Asa; the Honourable Lord Seamus McDaid, Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,

Greetings of the New Year from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Parhelium Herald!

This is the May 2005 internal Atenveldt Letter of Presentation. It precedes the external LoI that will contain the following submissions that are presented here, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry: Please have comments or questions to me, on any armorial matter, by 10 June 2005. (Please note the slightly “pushed up date”.)

Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too:

Heraldry Hut: The next Heraldry Hut will be Friday, 17 June, beginning at 7:30 PM.


Laurel Decisions: Final consideration for submissions that appear on the 28 October 2004 Atenveldt Letter of Intent appear at the end of this report.

Please consider the following submissions for the May 2005 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

Dana the Unredy (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

The name is English; Dana is the client’s legal given name (photocopy of driver’s license included for Laurel). The spelling of the byname is found in the COED from 1340. The Anglo-Saxon king Ethelred II (d. 1016) was known as Ethelred the Unready (“no-counsel, unwise”), according to . The client is most interested in the sound of the name and will not take major changes to the name.

Eric the Lucky (Granholme): NEW NAME

While the client wishes an 11th C. Scandanavian/ON name, and maintaining the epithet Lucky in English rather than ON so others will know what it means, the term “lucky,” referring to one who has good fortune, is first seen in English (as lukky) in 1502, according to the COED. Nonetheless, this could be considered the use of lingua anglica with an ON name. Since the ON form of the given name is Eiríkr, it’s probably best to consider this an English name (a Danish contribution, shown as Iricus in the Domesday Book (Withycombe, 3rd, p. 105 s.n. Eric), although it declined in use over period. The client is most interested in the language/culture of the name and will not accept major or minor changes to it.

Isibel sverðspillr (Atenveldt): NEW NAME CHANGE, from Isabelle d’Avallon

Isabelle d’Avellon was registered February 2000. If the new name is registered, please retain the old one as an alternate name.

The name is Old Norse. Isibel is a feminine given name of Christian origin found in The Old Norse Name, Geirr Bassi, p. 12The byname is a descriptive constructed one, sverð, “sword,” and spillir, “spoiler/slayer” (Geir Zoega, A Concise Dictionary of Old Icelandic, 1910, p. 421 and p. 399, respectively). The client is most interested in the sound of the name and wishes it to be authentic for Old Norse language/culture; she will not take major changes to the name.

Iuliana Muñoz Maldonado de Castile (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Gules, a natural leopard dormant contourney proper and a bordure wavy pean.

The name is Spanish. Iuliana is a feminine given name, “Medieval Spanish Names from the Monastery of Sahagun.” Antonio Miguel Santos de Borja (First Group) ( ). Muñoz is found as Spanish patronymic from 10th C. Leon, from the given name Munio, in “Nombres y Patronímicos Leoneses, s. X” ( ). Maldonado is found as a Spanish surname c. 1332 in “Members of the Order of the Band in the 14th C.,” Marianne Perdomo ( ). Castile was a former kingdom of Spain, independent from the 11th C. until the marriage of Ferdinand II and Isabella in the early 16th C. ( ). The client is most interested in the language/culture of the name; she will not allo the creation of a holding name.

Katherine Scarlett Hawkins (Atenveldt): NEW DEVICE

The name was registered January 2002.

Gules, a mouse rampant and on a chief three carracks contourny proper, sailed gules

Michael Hawkins of Portsmouth (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Sable, a sinister hand and a bordure argent.

The name is English. Michael is first seen in Curia Rolls in 1196 (Withycombe, 3rd edition, pp. 218-9); it is also the client’s legal given name (“even in my fantasies, there is no one I would rather be than me.”). Sir John Hawkins (1532-95), an English admiral, commanded the Victory at the defeat of the Spanish Armada ( ). Portsmouth has almost continuously been Englan’ds foremost naval base, since Henry VII had stone fortifications and docks built there ( ).

Shalim MacNeil (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Sable, three roundels between six annulets interlaced in annulo argent, a chief ermine.

Shalim is a masculine Russian given name, dating to 1491 (“Paul Goldschmidt's Dictionary of Period Russian Names,” ). MacNeil is a Scottish surname, with the spelling MacNeill dated within our grey area of 1633 (Black, Surnames of Scotland, 12th reprinting, 1999, p. 550). While mixing Russian with Gaelic or Scots names elements is not permitted (see the chart at ), would MacNeil be considered an anglicized form of the name? The client would be interested in knowing any given name that sounds close to Shaylan and is most interested in the sound of the name.

The following submissions appear in the May 2005 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:


This month’s commentary is provided by Aryanhwy merch Catmael [AmC], Ástríðr Þórgeirsdóttir [ÁÞ], Katherine Throckmorton [KT], Knute Hvitabjörn [KH], and Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy [MMM].


Ailleann Mac Quinn (Sundragon): NEW NAME

Combining Anglicized Irish and Gaelic is considered to be an anomaly, although such a combination is registerable. However, the name could be greatly improved by making it wholly Gaelic or wholly Anglicized Irish. [KT]

Ailleann Mac Quinn - Woulfe provides no non-modern English forms of <mac Cuinn>, unfortunately, though s.n. Ó uinn he has <O Quyn> and <O Quine> as English spellings temp Eliz. I - James I, so <Mac Quyn> or <Mac Quine> are plausible late-period English spellings of <mac Cuinn>. Unless evidence can be found for <Mac Quinn> as something other than a modern form, this should be changed to <Mac Quyn> or <Mac Quine>. Unfortunately, this puts the name at two weirdnesses - one for combining English and Gaelic in the same name, and another for the greater than 300 years temporal difference. The easiest solution would be to make the entire name Gaelic, e.g. <Ailleann ingen Cuinn>. Mari's Annals index has <Conn> in954, 994, 1014, 1017, 1033, 1034, 1070, 1100, 1167, 1201, 1202, 1257, 1497, 1559, so that would remove both the lingual and temporal disparities ( [AmC] Unfortunately, this information arrived after the LoI was sent out; I’ll contact the client and see how she wishes to proceed. [MMM]


Artúr Ard (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME

Although it is considered an anomaly, names that combine Middle Irish Gaelic and Early Modern Irish Gaelic are registerable. However, it would be an improvement if the name could be made more temporally consistent. [KT]

<Ard> is dated to 1400 in Mari's index. That gives the name both a temporal weirdness (more than 500 years) and a lingual weirdness (for combining Early Modern and Middle Irish, see the 11/01 LoAR), making the name unregisterable. We can push the given name up a bit by citing OCM s.n. Artúr, which notes an abbot who died in 1052; this is still not enough to remove the temporal disparity. Perhaps he might consider <Mór> 'big/great', which is found in Mari's Annals index as early as 1231. <Artúr Mór> would have just one weirdness, for the lingual disparity. [AmC] Unfortunately, Aryanhey’s commentary was received after the name submission had been included in the May LoI. [MMM]


Aylwin Wyllowe (Atenveldt): NEW BADGE: (fieldless) Issuant from an open trunk sable, a demi-bobcat contourny erminois.

An alternate blazon: (fieldless) An open trunk sable partially surmounted by a demi-cat contourny erminois.

I would reblazon this as: Issuant from an open chest sable, a demi-bobcat contourny erminois, to be in keeping with previous submissions. In searching the O and A for 'trunk', I found elephants and trees, searching for 'chest' yielded container objects matching the one the submitter has drawn. A very striking design. [ÁÞ] Dang, I wish I’d gotten this before the LoI went out...chest is far more clear. [MMM]

The cat doesn't evenly overlie the chest which violates RfS VII.7.b because the relative arrangement of the charges can't be reproduced from blazon.

[(Fieldless) A comet purpure overall a crescent azure] The crescent has too high a proportion of overlap with the comet to be acceptable. This must be returned as per the cover letter with the November 1992 LoAR, which permitted overall charges in fieldless badges only if the area of overlap is small and all charges identifiable. [Shajar al-Yaasmeen, 09/01, R-Ansteorra] Precedents - François, under CHARGE -- Overall

Most of the cat lies against the chest, not the field. The cat isn't identifiable as a bobcat without the characteristic short tail. If a bobcat is actually depicted, it would be a good idea to document it because there is only one prior registration of a bobcat which wasn't documented. The bobcat is a new world animal and would be a weirdness. The real problem with this is that the lid for the chest serves as a partial background for demi-cat. The chest should be drawn opening to the side, not the back. Redraw. [KH] I’ve discussed this commentary at length with the client; he is amenable to having the beast blazoned as a wildcat (which is found fairly commonly in Scottish armory...the “wild” part, we believe, gets the idea of a bulkier type of animal as seen in the emblazon, rather than a sleeker, slim animal one might associate with a domestic cat. We con’t agree that the arrangement of the charges cannot be reconstructed from the blazon; while the “lid” of the trunk is difficult to render (and we don’t think that drawing the trunk from the side would help in its identification, since the front view provides identity markers such as the strapping and the lock), the blazon of an open trunk suggests the default, as it were, place that a demi-creature would be issuing from (in the case of a demi-dragon issuing from a tankard, where else would the dragon becoming from except from the mouth of the vessel?). The client asks that the submission be sent on for commentary by the College as a whole. [MMM]


Bartelemy Bergeron (Twin Moons): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Per pale azure and vert, on a pale invected between two shuttles argent three clarions sable.

The name could be improved slightly by changing the spelling of the given name to the attested Bartelemi, but otherwise this is a very good name. [KT]

What evidence is there for <Bartelemy> as opposed to the documented <Bartelemi>? [AmC]


Catan inghean ui Cuinn and Ailleann Mac Quinn (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and JOINT HOUSEHOLD BADGE: Per pale gules and azure, a dragon and a unicorn combattant and on a chief argent a triquetra inverted vert.

Since the given name and the byname are both early, this would be better as the wholly early <Catan ingen hui Cuinn> 'Catan daughter of a male descendent of Conn'. [AmC]

[Per pale argent and sable, a human footprint sable and two roundels in pale argent within a bordure vert] The device raised questions about marshalling. RfS XI.3 states: "Armory that appears to marshall independent arms is considered presumptuous." Without the bordure, this would be returned for the appearance of impalement, which is the display of two coats, side by side, to show marital affiliation or tenure in an office. Armory can avoid the appearance of marshalling by adding "charges overall that were not used for marshalling in period heraldry" (RfS XI.3.a). In late period, a bordure may be added to some kinds of marshalled coats of arms as a mark of cadency: an individual who bore quartered arms as his personal arms might have a child who bore the quartered arms within a bordure. The child's arms would still be marshalled. Thus, adding a bordure will not remove the appearance of marshalling from quartered arms. However, impaled arms show marriage or tenure in an office. In period, a second generation would not generally inherit the impaled arms in that form. The component arms of two married people might be inherited in a quartered form by a child, but would not be inherited in an impaled form.

Bordures in impaled arms traditionally cut off at the line of division. If one impaled the hypothetical arms Argent, a cross fleury within a bordure gules. and Gules, a lion within a bordure argent., the resultant impaled armory would appear to be Per pale argent and gules, a cross fleury and a lion within a bordure counterchanged. As a result, armory using a per pale line of division, a bordure, and different types of charges on each side of the line of division will look like marshalled arms if the bordure changes tincture at the line of division. It may also look like marshalled armory if the bordure is a solid tincture but as good contrast with both halves of the field. The hypothetical arms Argent, a sword within a bordure sable. and Or, an eagle within a bordure sable. would combine when impaled to armory which would appear to be Per pale argent and Or, a sword and an eagle within a bordure sable. Thus, the only case in which a bordure may remove the appearance of impalement from armory which would otherwise appear to be impaled is if the bordure is a solid tincture and if it has poor contrast with one half of the field. That is the case with this device. [Pegge Leg the Merchant, 03/02, A-An Tir] Precedents - François, under PRETENSE or PRESUMPTION

I feel that a chief works very similarly to a bordure and wouldn't remove the appearance of marshalling in this situation. However, the tertiary charge is in the center of the chief and overlies the theoretical line of division. Therefore the triquetra removes the appearance of marshalling. [KH]

From the picture it appears to be: Per pall argent, gules and azure, a dragon and unicorn combattant argent, in chief a triquetra inverted vert. No conflicts despite using a dragon and an unicorn, which I would expect to be commonly used charges. [ÁÞ] Blazoning this as Per pall, with a deeper line of division for the chief-most part of the field would’ve created armory with three non-similar primary charges (i.e., slot machine heraldry). [MMM]


Cécile de Brétigny (Brymstone): NAME RESUBMISSION from Laurel, December 2004

Originally submitted as Cecilia du Lac d'Argent, the name was returned because there was no evidence found for the use of the element Lac in French placenames. Cécile is the French form of a feminine given name, based upon St. Cecilia, a Roman martyr c. 177, who is considered the patron saint of music (Withycombe, 3rd edition, pp. 60-1, s.n. Cecilia). Brétigny French village near Chartres, France, most famous for the Treaty of Brétigny in 1360 which ended the first phase of the Hundred Years War ( ).


Coilean Mac Caiside (Tir Ysgithr): NEW DEVICE: Argent, a bat-winged cat statant contourny sable, winged azure, enflamed gules.

(Considering) Catriona Cattanach of Clan Macpherson: Argent, a Persian winged lion passant reguardant to sinister sable and a chief indented gules., (there is) 1 CD chief and 1 CD wing tincture. (Considering) Elspeth of Oakwood Court: Argent, a bat-winged cat courant sable between three oak leaves vert., (there is) 1 CD addition of secondaries and1 CD wing tincture. (These are both clear.) [KH] [ÁÞ]


Helena de Argentoune (Tir Ysgithr): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, January 2005

Per bend sable and gules, a simurgh volant bendwise Or.

The name was registered October 1985.

The original submission was returned for administrative reasons, the forms on which it was submitted not the standard, approved forms for the submitter's kingdom. This device does not conflict with Reagan of the White Dawn, Per bend sinister azure and vert, a songbird migrant bendwise maintaining in its beak a flute bendwise sinister Or, or Reagan of the White Dawn, Azure, a songbird migrant bendwise, maintaining in its beak a fusa, Or. There is a CD for the field and another for the change of type between a songbird and a simurgh, which is a monster with a long, distinctive multi-part tail.


Malise der Totschläger (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Per pale Or and sable, a double-headed eagle gules and a bordure counterchanged.

(Considering) Áengus Ó Conchobhair: Per pale Or and sable, an eagle between in bend sinister two crosses couped all within a bordure counterchanged., (there is) 1 CD primary tincture and 1 CD secondary crosses. [KH]

Nice Germanic armory. I was unable to find a Germanic name close in sound to 'Maleus' I found Mathias and Melchior - the former has a closer sound to Maleus, the latter has an 'L'. [ÁÞ]


Marius Mac Conchobhair (Mons Tonitrus): NEW NAME CHANGE from “Marius Conor”


Reina Vidales de Tarragonna (Twin Moons): NEW NAME

I’m a bit concerned that Reina ….de X might be considered presumptuous, although the addition of Vidales might clear this up. Otherwise, this is a splendid name. [KT]

The combination of <Reina> and a locative byname is presumptuous per VI.1 "For example, Regina the Laundress is acceptable but Regina of Germany is not." <Reina> is a form of <Regina>. If she allows major changes, <de Tarragonna> can simply be dropped. [AmC]


Tegan of Liskeard (Mons Tonitrus): BADGE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, January 2005

(fieldless) In pale a chameleon vert statant atop a heart gules.

The name was registered January 2005.

The original submission, (Fieldless) A peacock feather bendwise sinister proper surmounted and sustained by a Cornish chough proper., was returned for violating the policy regarding overall charges on fieldless badges and must be returned. This is a complete design, using elements from the client’s registered armory, Argent, in pale a chameleon vert statant atop a heart gules, an orle purpure.

The following are returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds for further work, May 2005:

Gavin Featherstone (Mons Tonitrus): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, December 2004

Per fess abased gules and sable, a fess abased and in chief a Catherine’s wheel argent.

RETURNED for redrawing (the primary charge is neither an heraldic wheel or a Catherine wheel), use of an “abased” field division.

Lorne Wallace McGavin (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

It does not appear that the registerablity of names that combine Anglicized Gaelic and Scots has been decided. Given previous precedents, my guess is that it would be registerable, but considered anomalous. Based on the recent return of Robert Leslie Macallister it would appear that unless new information comes to light, double surnames in Scots will not be registerable.

Of course, all of the above are irrelevant to the major issue with the name--the submitter has three bynames and no given name.

Since the submitter is determined to use the name Lorna or Lorne, my best suggestion is to drop the other surnames, select a feminine given name and use Lorne as a locative byname. Although this will not fulfill the submitters desire to use Lorna or Lorne as a given name it would at least get the desired element into a registerable name. [KT]

 <Lorne> occurs as a given name in Black s.n. Thane, dated to 1222 in the entry <Lorne Thein de Ures>. <Wallace> was originally a descriptive byname meaning 'Welsh', and so as such should follow the patronym, rather than preceding it, e.g. <Lorne McGavin Wallace>. However, if she won't allow major changes, this switch cannot be made. [AmC]

HELD pending discussion of name order with the client.

Magnus av Nordensköld (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Vert, on a bend sinister between a double-turreted tower and two herring in pale, that in base contourny, argent, four cauldrons palewise sable.

The submission is HELD for a month, pending discussion of name elements with the client.

Ute Rogge av Nordensköld (Tir Ysgithr) NEW NAME and DEVICE: Per pale gules and argent, a mullet of six points counterchanged interlaced with three annulets conjoined two and one sable.

The submission is HELD for a month, pending discussion of name elements with the client.

The following submissions were registered by the S.C.A. College of Arms, February 2005:

Áine hua Murchada. Name and device. Purpure, two swords in fess argent between three anchors Or.

Alyne Strangwych. Badge. (Fieldless) An oak leaf argent.

Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Badge. Per pale argent and azure, two battle-axes in saltire sable and in base a sun in glory Or, a bordure counterchanged.

Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Badge (see RETURNS for Order Name Order of the Esprit de Corps). Or, on a pile between two compass stars azure a torch Or enflamed proper.

Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Badge (see RETURNS for Order Name Order of the Lichtbrueder). (Fieldless) A sheaf of rapiers inverted sable surmounted by a sun in glory Or.

Cecilia du Lac d'Argent. Device. Vert semy-de-lys, on a bend sinister argent three unicorns passant palewise gules.

Colyn MacRuairidh of Rathlin. Device. Per bend sinister rayonny purpure and Or, a stag courant argent.

The submitter has a letter of permission to conflict from Gianni Arcieri, Per fess azure and bendy sable and argent, a stag at gaze argent.

Dante McGavin. Name and device. Per saltire purpure and azure, an anchor and on a chief argent four shamrocks vert.

The name mixes Scots and Italian; this is one step from period practice.

Ivan Kosinski. Badge. (Fieldless) An enfield rampant contourny azure maintaining a padlock argent.

Katherine Throckmorton. Badge. (Fieldless) In fess a Catherine's wheel gules sustained by a rabbit salient azure attired of a stag's horns Or.

Roland Childeric de Laon. Name and device. Per chevron inverted vert and sable, in chief a wolf dormant Or.

Note: this is a single-charge piece of armory, using a canine as the charge, no less!

Sundragon, Barony of. Badge. Per fess azure and gules, three wolves' teeth issuant from sinister argent, a bordure Or.

The following submissions have been returned for further work, February 2005:

Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Order name Order of the Esprit de Corps.

We are returning this order name for lack of documentation. The submitters provided no documentation for the words in French, either modern or in period, and the documentation for the phrase Esprit de Corps in English failed to date it prior to the 18th C. To show that this is a properly formed Order name, the submitters must demonstrate several things:

                That the words that form the Order name are found in period in the intended language.

                That the words that form the Order name have the desired meaning in the intended language in period.

                That the Order name itself conforms to documented patterns.

In this case, none of these were demonstrated, nor did the College supply the missing documentation.

Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Order name Order of the Lichtbrueder.

This name does not follow period patterns of Order names. Although the submitter demonstrated that Lichtbrueder is a properly constructed modern German word whose literal meaning is "Light Brothers," no documentation was submitted and none found showing that the word "licht" was used to describe a quality or virtue in German in period. In fact, no documentation was included showing that either of the words used to form this order name were used in period; the College was able to supply such documentation. What was not supplied by the College was documentation showing that these terms formed a meaningful construct in period German and that that construct was consistent with period Order names. We regularly require such documentation for order name in English, and it is, likewise, required for non-English language order names.

Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy

c/o Linda Miku

2527 East 3rd Street, Tucson AZ 85716


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