Kingdom of Atenveldt
Unto Their Royal Majesties Morgan and Livia; Lord Tymothy Smythson, Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,
Greetings from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Brickbat Herald and Parhelium Herald for the Kingdom of Atenveldt!
A little divergence from the usual: this LoP actually shows the outcome of last month's LoP (with most of the Estrella submissions upon it). Don't think you can get out of things so easily, though! The April Letter of Presentation is coming soon, and input on it will be very much appreciated (our heraldic cousins in other kingdoms have been doing all the commentary recently – on our internal letters!). It will be fairly long, with the rest of the Estrella submissions, along with the “usual” submissions sent to this office. If you can comment, please do!
Heraldry Hut: The next Heraldry Hut will be Friday, April 18, beginning at 7:30 PM. Please contact me for directions or if you have questions.
The following submissions appear in the March 2014 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:
[NB: There were two March LoIs published, dated 3/25/ and 3/30]
Commentary is provided by Alys Mackyntoich (AM), Andreas von Meißen (AvM), Aryanhwy merch Catmael (AmC), Brenna Lowri o Ruthin (BLoR), Gunnvor silfraharr (Gs), Juetta Copin (JC), Kolosvari Arpadne Julia (KAJ), Magnus von Lübeck (MvL), Maridonna Benvenuti (MB), Michael FitzGeoffrey (MFG), ffride wlffsdotter (fw).
Áine inghean Uí Cellaig (BoAtenveldt): New Name and Device: Per chevron azure and argent, two owls gardant respectant argent and a tree eradicated azure, trunked sable.
needs to use the MIr form of the connective, too: <ingen Uí>.
And as lenition of <C> was shown in MIr orthography, the byname
needs to be <ingen Uí Chellaig>. (AmC)
This is clear of Renee Claymore (reg. 11/2002 via Atenveldt), "Per chevron azure and argent, two martlets and a claymore inverted counterchanged", since owls are an SC from martlets, and likewise considering Meredith Welles of Goosewood (reg. 11/1994 via Calontir), Per chevron throughout azure and argent, two geese respectant reguardant and an arrow inverted counterchanged."; Vs. Deirdre ingen Cholmáin (reg. 09/2010 via Calontir), "Per chevron dovetailed azure and argent, two doves rising respectant argent and a tree eradicated proper," there's a DC for the field division and one for changing the tincture of the tree.; Vs. Mikhail Tomasov syn Ambros'ev (reg. 01/2006 via Atlantia), "Per chevron azure and argent, two horses rampant addorsed and a tree blasted and eradicated counterchanged," there's a DC for changing the type of 2/3 of the charges, and another for changing the posture/orientation of the same. (AmC) (3/30/14 LoI)
Alexander de Burdegala (Twin Moons): New Device: Per pale purpure and vert, a Bacchus face argent and on a chief wavy Or, three goblets gules.
one checks Parker, one sees that what he says is: "Bacchus'
faces is a term also found, but in this case it would have been more
correct if they had been blazoned heads." He also gives no
evidence that this is a period charge or term of blazon. I would
blazon this as "a bearded man's head affronty crined of grapes
and grape leaves". (AmC)
Allesia de Canaberiis (Ered Sul): Device Resubmission from Kingdom, September 2011: Per chevron wavy Or and gules, two otters couchant respectant in chevron sable and an edelweiss blossom argent.
The color version really needs some interior detailing on the otters. (Gs) (ELM)
Details were added to the colored version. (MMM)
Alfred Jensen of Mo (Sundragon): New Badge
Argent, a throwing axe and a spear head crossed in saltire, in base a dagger all gules.
According to the A&O he name was registered June 1987; I cannot find it in the online LoAR files. It was submitted as, and supposedly registered as Jensen, however.
Anastacia Blackmore (BoAtenveldt): New Name
Putting it in one time and
place: <Anastacia Gyste> married 1592, Cornwall,England. Batch
Andrew mac Bran of Antrim (Twin Moons): New Name
<mac>, <Bran> must be in the genitive case: <Brain>.
It would be better to document this part of the name directly (via
and then appeal to the grandfather clause only for <of Antrim>.
don't think we even need to rely on the grandfather clause for
bet we can do this name in an entirely Anglicized form that requires
minimal spelling changes.
Atenveldt, Barony of, (BoAtenveldt): New Order Name (Order of the Argent Arrow of the Barony of Atenveldt) and Badge: Gules, two palm trees couped crossed in saltire in chief a crescent-headed arrow fesswise argent.
This fits the order pattern of heraldic color + heraldic charge. The April 2012 Cover Letter allows the use of heraldic color terms in order names. (MvL)
conflict found outside of the barony's own registrations.
Atenveldt, Barony, New Order Name Change (Order of the Gules Hurlebatte of the Barony of Atenveldt)
There is no such thing as alternate names for order names. If this is a change, then the old name has to be released. If they want both names, then this should be submitted as a new name. (AmC)
The usual procedure is to close and retire the old order, retain it in registration, and then register a new order name to replace it. At least, that is what my barony and kingdom has done.
If you release the old order name it may offend members who have recieved that order in the past, unless the barony plans to award the new order to all of the previous recipients. Since it is a recent order that might be possible.
If the barony has decided to release the Order of the Red Hurlebatte I believe it requires a separate Letter of Intent entry and a letter from the ruling noble of the barony stating the intent.
is that the current procedure for release of order name? (MvL)
All the Barony wishes to do is have the name of the Order altered to be more in line (using heraldic tinctures for the "colors" in the Order names)with the other Order names associated with the Barony. I doubt that the recipients will mind (this is an Order designated for children). If the previous Order name cannot be retained, it can be released. (MMM))
Aviva Dumas (Twin Moons): New Name
Broccán Ó Staimna (Atenveldt): New Name and Device: Sable, in pale three eagles.
He needs the MIr form of the particle, <ua>, in order for the byname to be linguistically compatible. (AmC) (AM)
There is, unfortunately, a conflict with the just-registered badge of Taldo Venturini (January 2014, East): <Azure, in pale three eagles Or>. There is only a single DC for the field. (AvM) (Gs) (ELM)
Extensive work with the client came up with a design that he much preferred (Or, on a pale sable three eagles Or.), cleared the conflict, and immediately caused a new conflict with a device registered to Saito Takauji, Or, on a pale sable three cherry blossoms Or. (registered December 2013!!!)
Cathryn Sylvestrov (BoAtenveldt): New Name
the submitter give a source for <Cathryn>? I can get as close
as <Catharin>, if it was a mixed Russian/Slovakian name?
Columba de Palomares (Tir Ysgithr): New Badge: (Fieldless) A dove volant bendwise argent sustaining and harnessed to its back a grenade bendwise inverted sable enflamed proper.
The name was registered December 2004.
use of animals as missile bearers (specifically birds and cats) is
noted in a 500-year-old German manuscript on battle tactics/siege
warfare uncovered by University of Pennsylvania researcher Mitch
While this weaponry was said
never to have been implemented, the use of animals as pyrotechnic
technicians is noted in the Old Testament, with Samson capturing
foxes and attaching torches to their tails, then allowing them to run
through the Philistines' fields (Judges 15: 1-3), and in the 20th
C., making bats into incendiary devices that would burn the wood and
paper structures found in Japan of that era
Conrad Bombast von Trittenheim: New Name Change
Dawn Greenwall (BoAtenveldt): New Name
The MED s.v. <grēne> (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=byte&byte=70094037&egdisplay=open&egs=70145513) has surnames that are green + landscape-feature:
The MED s.v. <wal> (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=byte&byte=234240541&egdisplay=open&egs=234315417) has surnames with second elements as <-wall>, one of which is specifically color + wall (Blackwall):
yet! I have a 1595 <Greenwall>, <Grenewall> from:
Deletha of Anandyrdale (Twin Moons): New Badge: Or, a squirrel rampant and a bordure embattled sable.
"Or, a squirrel rampant vert and a bordure embattled
Appears clear from conflict.
Internal detailing would help the squirrel in the colored version,
but I could still recognize it as a squirrel. (ELM)
Elizabeth Clough (Twin Moons): New Name and Device: Azure, a lion's head caboshed argent and a chief ermine.
Nice name! <Elizabeth Chelsea> cited by OSCAR is not a conflict. (AmC)
of Elektra Leonidas (reg. 02/1986 via the East), "Sable, a
lion's head caboshed argent within a bordure ermine," with DCs
for the field and the type of peripheral.
Looks like she found a niche. (AmC)
Finán mac Tigernaig (Twin Moons): New Name and Device: Vert, a cock's head erased contourny Or, beaked, combed and wattled gules, within an orle argent.
Appears clear from conflict. (ELM)
Blazon-fu: <Vert, a cock's head contourny erased Or, crested and jellopped gules within an orle argent. Jellopped is a specific term of blazonry for chicken wattles that I learned from Talan Gwynek. The OED cites the 1610 Guillim's Display of Heraldrie iii. xxi. 164 "He beareth Gules, three Cockes Argent, Armed, Crested, and Iellopped Or, by the name of Cocke. (Gs) Cool term (and I like “armed,” too)! (MMM)
Grigor Medvedov (Tir Ysgithr): New Name and Device: Azure, two bears combattant and on a chief argent a Latin cross between two mullets of eight points gules.
is a male given name dated to 1495 (as Medved'),
the citation gives Medvedev as a patronymic form, 1523. His
original byname follows the construction found in Paul's Grammar
which uses -ov or -ev as a patronymic ending. I don't
know if one form is more correction than the other.
Ilandria Brin (Ered Sul): Device Resubmission from Laurel, July 2012: Sable, three triquetras in pale Or, a bordure compony azure and argent.
(by 4 DCs) of: Tearlach MacCarnochan The
following device associated with this name was registered in May of
1990 (via the East):
Actually, you can stop at substantial change of the primary charge. (ELM)
Jacqueline du Bosc (Sundragon): New Name and Device: Gules, a cross checky sable and argent between four hearts argent.
If the submitter gets a letter from her mother or sister attesting to the relationship, she will be able to use the exact same form of the byname that they registered. (AM) (3/30/14 LoI)
Juliette Dashwood (Twin Moons): New Device Change: Per bend argent and purpure, a quail contourny sable within a bordure counterchanged.
Kathleen of Anandyrdale (Twin Moons): New Name
appears in my article "Something Rich and Strange:
"Undocumentable" Names From The IGI Parish Records"
as an English female given name dated to 1571, 1585, 1601 and later.
Lena d'Siena (Twin Moons): New Name
Neither <de> nor <da> elide before consonants. (AmC)
Does the submitter allow changes? (MB)
Lucian Lenoir (Sundragon): New Name and Device: Per fess Or and purpure, a jester's cap conjoined with a mask of comedy in pale, a bordure indented counterchanged.
Establishing <Lucian> firmly in French, my article "Something Rich and Strange: "Undocumentable" Names From The IGI Parish Records" (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/SomethingRichandStrange.html) gives:
BOURAVIN Male Marriage 14 January 1630 Saint-Germain-En-Laye,
Seine-Et-Oise, France Batch: M803143
"French Names from Paris, 1421, 1423, & 1438" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/french/paris1423surnames.html) has <Le Noir> dated to 1421. (AM)
Mercurio da Spin (BoAtenveldt): New Name and Device: Per saltire argent and sable, four bats counterchanged.
generally prefer the period term for bat, "reremouse".
That must be what the last line 'whoops' on the letter refers to. The field tincture is backwards on the emblazon. (MvL)
Agree with the conflict call vs Andrew. (ELM)
The client was notified and has agreed to redesign his device to clear the conflict with Andrew.
Miguel Alejandro Mendoza (BoAtenveldt): New Name and Device: Per pale gules and argent, in pale a sheaf of arrows inverted sable and a vol per pale argent and sable.
Iiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting. I should inform my Baron (Alejandro Ramirez Mendoza) that he has a son floating around that he doesn't know about. (AvM)
Unmarked locatives are registrable for Spanish if he really wants it. (MvL)
As drawn, the sheaf of arrows has vastly less visual weight than the vol. Reblazon: Per pale gules and argent, a vol counterchanged argent and sable, and in chief a sheaf of arrows inverted sable. (Gs)
Appears clear from conflict. I would suggest redrawing the arrows to be bolder. (ELM)
The arrows have been made bolder. (MMM)
Morgan MacDuff and Dawn Silverrose (BoAtenveldt): New Household Name, “Fellowship of the Skulls”
Odette Steingrim (Sundragon): New Name and Device: Purpure, a willow tree and on a chief rayonny argent, three demi-swans displayed sable.
Stepfather or no, a 16th c. French given name does not combine with a 10th c. Viking given name used as an unmarked patronymic. (Gs)
I wasn't able to find if a temporal/lingual anomaly can be permitted if permission to use a name element is invoked. (MMM)
le Fayre (BoAtenveldt): New Name
Colier; Female; Christening; 13 May 1599; Kings Areley,
Worcester, England; Batch: C13561-5
If Ophelia is determined unusable, the client will accept Ophila, dated 1629. (MMM)
Otto Umble (Twin Moons): New Name and Device: Argent, on a bend cotised sable, four fleurs-de-lys argent.
Both batches are acceptable for registration and both names are from England. How and Otto got to England is a good question. (MvL)
on the line version, the fleurs-de-lys are disjointed and hard to
identify. On the colored version it's just that much more difficult.
The fleurs should also occupy all of their space. (Gs)
(That is is a stencil probably has something to do with it; Gunnvor's emblazons have been substituted. (MMM))
Pelleas of Crete (Tir Ysgithr): Device Resubmission from Laurel, November 2013: Erminois, a ram's head cabossed vert.
The name was registered November 2013.
The original submission, Sable, on a fess ermine a ram's head cabossed gules., was returned for conflict with William de Cameron, Sable, a fess ermine., and for redrawing. This is a redesign.
Raynagh ingen huí Timothy (BoAtenveldt): New Name and Device: Per pale azure and argent, a butterfly counterchanged.
<ingen huí Timothy> combines Gaelic and English in the same phrase and is not registerable. (AmC)
<Raynagh> is an Anglicized name. She doesn't need to use a Gaelic byname with it. <Raynagh Timothy> would equally indicate that she is Timothy's daughter. For the use of <Timothy> as an unmarked patronymic surname, the Family Search Historical Records have: Mary Timothy; Female; Christening; 24 Sep 1637; Hadlow, Kent, England; Batch: C13135-1.
really isn't "equivalent" to Timothy. That's a modern
Further correspondence from the client "...Raynagh O Tymonie sounds perfectly fine to me. If that is all that is needed to fix the issue, I would choose that version." (MMM)
Roan Feórna (Ered Sul): New Name and Device: Azure, an heraldic harbor seal erect and issuant from chief a demi-sun argent eclipsed sable.
Charges are heraldic by default. (AmC)
If the given name is truly Gaelic, it is probably not pronounced the way s/he thinks it is. Confirmed the documentation for <Feórna>. (AM)
Robert Heinrich and Annya Sergeeva (Tir Ysgithr): New Joint Badge: (Fieldless) An estoile Or.
conflicts with the device of Thomas Loxley, <Per
pale azure and gules, an estoile Or>,
currently on the Lochac LoI dated 2014-02-12
Thomas' device is scheduled to appear on the May 2014 LoAR.
I would still send this up to Laurel. Thomas Loxley's submission isn't registered yet and something could happen to get it returned. Even if it gets registered permission to conflict might be easier to get if people see the badge at Laurel. (MvL)
This _cannot_ be returned in kingdom for conflict with Thomas, since Thomas's armory is not registered. (AmC)
Concur with Schwarzdrachen. If I were the herald on this one, I'd be trying to tack down PtC right now ahead of time. (Gs)
Agree with the conflict vs Thomas. (ELM)
Roland Moreau (Sundragon): New Name and Device: Per saltire azure and sable, in pale two lyres and in fess two swords argent.
Roswitha von Wolfsfeldt (BoAtenveldt): New Name and Device: Per fess Or and sable, a rose gules and a wolf's head caboshed argent.
s.n. Roswitha dates the name from the 10th century.
Appears clear from conflict. The wolf sorta looks like a rat or a shrew head. (ELM)
I agree that this could have a "wolfier" wolf, but as drawn, this wolf is within the range of period depictions of wolves (Image #1). [To the eye of this Texas gal, it looks like an angry armadillo...] Wolves in period armory can look like anything from otters to dogs to foxes. Often the only way I know for sure a charge is a wolf is because it's a cant, or because the beast is either blue or black, or vulned on the shoulder. (Gs)
I find this depiction of a wolf's head distinctly non-wolf like, and would not recommend it. (AmC)
To me it looked like an angry possum. Definitely not a wolf. (MvL) The wolf has been redrawn. (MMM)
Sayyid ibn Tariq al-Muhibb (Twin Moons): New Name
[al-Muh.ibb] (with a dot under the h) is found in the alphabetical listing of nicknames from the same article. (JC)
<Sayyid> is a title, "Lord" (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/arabic-naming2.htm). (Gs)
None of the other bynames refer to locations so it should be allowed under the Regina the Laundress ruling. (MvL)
I agree that <Sayyid> is not presumptuous here. (AmC)
Segardus de Roma (Sundragon): New Name
The name is Italian. Segardus is a male given name found in “Masculine Names from Thirteenth Century Pisa: Men's Names in Alphabetical Order,” Juliana de Luna, http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/pisa/pisa-given-alpha.html. de Roma, is a locative, “from Rome,” although I think more accurate form is da Roma.
No conflict found. De is found in some Italian names as a leftover from the Latin. (MvL)
I think more precisely it is that we find <de> in Latin documents and Latinized names.(Gs)
You also found <de> in documents where the names are otherwise indistinguishable from Italian. (AmC)
Shannon inghean Uí Bríáín (BoAtenveldt): New Name, Device and Badge: Argent, on a bend counter-embowed vert, a triquetra between two shamrocks all palewise Or.
(badge) Argent, on a bend counter-embowed vert a shamrock Or.
conflict found. The name is not intrusively modern. If the name were
English we could document Shannon as a given name in LDS IGI Parish
Since Gaelic and English can be combined without penalty, <Shannon> ca
Thora Thumb Dragon (Windale): New Device: Per pale vert and sable, a polypus within an orle of skulls Or.
There was a lot of controversy on the drawing of the polypus, why some are registered and some are returned – this seems based on how the tentacles are arranged so that the animal is quickly identifiable. (I'm not including it here: if you want to read it, all all commentrary verbatim for this Letter of Presentation: https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=2477). No conflict was found here, and I believe that the polypus, even with a few crossed tentacles is identifiable (rather than being smushed into an non-identifiable blob of polypus goo). Additionally, this is the drawing taken directly from the Pennsic Traceable Art project.
(I've heard some complaint on several templates taken from that resource. If the templates are incorrect or inadequate for drawing purposes, are the authors correcting them? Are the authors being made aware of them? It seems to say nothing is a disservice to the authors and our clients alike.)
Tiberus Artorius Lupus (Twin Moons): New Name and Device: Or, three wolf's heads erased one and two sable.
Simple Guide to Imperial Roman Names by Ursula Georges,
The Praenomen – Tiberius.
I found no conflicts. Nice cant. (AvM)
Since one and two isn't listed as an arrangement under substantial change of the primary charge group, how does this compare to Hanor Blackwolf: The following device associated with this name was registered in July of 1985 (via the West): Or, three wolf's heads couped contourny sable. (ELM)
One DC for arrangement, one for the orientation of the charges. (AmC)
Clear then ;-) (ELM)
Tomas de Leon (Ered Sul): New Name and Device: Quarterly gules and sable, a spider Or.
Úlfr vafri (BoAtenveldt): Device Resubmission from Laurel, July 2013: Argent, a wolf's head caboshed bendwise gules maintaining in its month a sword, the blade enflamed Or.
Wilhelm Tepes (BoAtenveldt): New Name
The name generated a LOT of discussion (https://oscar.sca.org/index.php?action=100&loi=2477#32). The most important parts I've picked out:
occurs as a Hungarian surname; Kázmér explains it as "probably
a diminutive of the old secular name Tepe", and lists 1453:
circa 1459: Nicolai
1549: Benedictus Thepes,
and 1579: R. Tepes
[Tamás]. (Fehértói has the "old secular name" as Thepe,
dated to 1274/1291.)
Note that the name in this submission is Tepes, not Tsepesh as in the precedent. As near as I can tell, tepes is meaningless in Romanian -- the word for "spike" appears to be ţeapă, with a hook on the 't', which (according to Wikipedia) indicates a 'ts' sound. The name is also basically meaningless in Hungarian -- there is a word tépés which can be understood as 'laceration' (root tép 'to tear'), but it's very rarely used. So there's only one language left in which an offensive meaning might be applicable to this submission, and that's English. Is tepes inherently offensive in English? Does it even mean anything? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. (KAJ)
expanded the offense rulings to meanings in foreign languages even if
English speakers didn't get it without explanation. A precedent on
this byname can be overturned but it may also get returned at Laurel
doesn't actually contradict what I'm trying to say. I think.
As Julia notes <Tepes> =/= <Tsepesh>. The precedent you cite does not apply. (AmC) (Correctly pronounced, this isn't the way most of us would pronounce Vlad's byname. MMM)
I have no objection to sending the name to Laurel for a ruling. Returns for offense are best determined at that level not kingdom. It is just my suspicion that it will be ruled offensive. (MvL)
Yehoshua ben Abraam (Twin Moons): New Device: Or, two pea-plants fructed and entwined about a pole, on a chief vert three stars of David two and one Or.
Appears clear from conflict. I don't know if a single pea plant drawn in this manner is identifiable. In any case, it'd need to be much bolder. I don't have a problem with the stars though, although, if redrawn, I'd enlarge the chief *just* slightly to give the stars more room to show the arrangement. (ELM)
Blazon-fu: Or, two pea-vines fructed and entwined around a stake, on a chief vert three stars of David two and one Or. (Gs)
The following submissions were returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds for further work, March 2014:
From the May 2009 LoAR cover letter: http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2009/05/09-05cl.html "...as of the May 2009 decisions meetings, we declare that no new name elements or name patterns will be ruled SCA-compatible, that all names previously ruled SCA-compatible are no longer SCA-compatible and that in order for them to be registered, documentation meeting the same standards as for non-SCA-compatible names will be required." Is there any documentation for the name Cerridwen since 2007? (fw)
thing I have found is an English surname: <Elizabeth Kedewen>
married 1563, England. Batch no.
Goutte d'Eau is completely correct about SCA-compatible names. <Cerridwen> cannot be registered without independent documentation. It's one of those names that I've tried to find several times in the IGI/Family Search, without much luck. <Dubhghaill> is the Early Modern Irish form, which means that the patronymic marker must be the Early Modern Irish <inghean>. The Middle Irish form would be <ingen Dubgaill>. (AM)
Appears clear from conflict. If the roses are the sole primary, then I would suggest reducing the mount's size a bit and letting the roses be more central. I would reblazon as: Argent, three double roses purpure and argent and a mountain vert. (ELM)
RETURNED for using a non-SCA-compatible name.
Dominic de la Mer (Twin Moons): New Badge: (Fieldless) A fox sejant gardant queue-forchy gules.
Conflict with Gregoire Reynard de Bourgogne (reg. 08/1978), "Per chevron, barry wavy of ten Or and azure, and argent, a red fox sejant proper." One DC for the field, none for the number of tails. (AmC, ELM)
RETURNED for conflict.
Thank you all for your continuing hard work for the Atenveldt College of Heralds and the people of Atenveldt!
Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy
Parhelium Herald, Kingdom of Atenveldt
c/o Linda Miku
2527 East 3rd Street
Tucson AZ 85716