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Kingdom of Atenveldt Home Page

Kingdom of Atenveldt
Heraldic Submissions Page

(administered by the Brickbat Herald)


Unto Their Royal Majesties Edward and Asa; Dame Anita, Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,

Greetings from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Brickbat Herald and Parhelium Herald for the Kingdom of Atenveldt!

This is the March 2010 Atenveldt Letter of Presentation. It precedes the external Letter of Intent (another itty-bitty LoI, unless some Estrella submissions land on it) that will contain the following submissions that are presented here, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry and consultation. You can send commentary to me privately at or join “Atenveldt Submissions Commentary” at Yahoo! ( ) and post there. (Any commentary is likely be included in the next month's Letter of Presentation so that all may learn from it, and we can see how additional documentation or comments may have influenced a submission.) Please have commentary to me by 20 February 2010.

Heraldry Hut: The next Heraldry Hut will be held Friday, 19 March 2010.

Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too:

College of Arms Actions: Submissions found in the August 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent were acted upon by the SCA College of Arms at its December 2009 meetings; the results are found at the end of this report.

Please consider the following submissions for the March 2010 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

Moracius de Rosamon (Wealhhnutu): NEW BADGE

(Fieldless) Three triangles one and two conjoined gules, azure and vert.

The name was accepted at the Estrella XXVI Consultation Table.

Sigridh Friedrich (Wealhhnutu): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Argent, a wolf rampant gules between two bars gemel sable.

Sigridh is a Swedish feminine given name dated 1350-1399, 1400-1449, 1450-1499, 1500-1600 in “Swedish Feminine Given Names from SMP,” Aryanhwy merch Catmael ( ). The client's first choice was “Siri,” which she thinks is Swedish or German, but we were unable to find a source for it. Friedrich is found in Bahlow, German Names, p. 132 (header); it is the name of Hohenstaufen emperors, including Barbarossa. As a byname, it can be dated with this spelling to 1386 in Austria via Ernst Schwarz, Deutsche Namenforschung. I: Ruf- und Familiennamen (Goettingen: Vandenhoek & Ruprecht, 1949). s.nn. Friedrich, Johann (Academy of Saint Gabriel report 2664, ).

The following submissions appear in the February 2010 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

This month's commentary is provided by Maridonna Benvenuti [MB] and Marta [MMM].

Cynewyn Deux Chevaux (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Azure, two horses' heads erased, addorsed and conjoined, and a chief triangular argent.

Fiordalisa Elena di Tommaso (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per bend sinister gules and azure ermined throughout on a bend sinister argent four butterflies alternating azure and gules.

Fiordalisia is a feminine given name found in “Italian names from Imola, 1312,” Sara L. Uckelman ( ). Fiordelise found in, as is Elena as a feminine given name and Tommaso as a masculine given name, in “Names from Sixteenth Century Venice,” Juliana de Luna ( ).

The client desires a female name and is interested in it being authentic for language/culture of 11th C. Lombardy. (I think this is more accurate, or at least more documentable, as a later period name.) She will not accept major changes to the name.

This name structure is a late period name construction as Marta said. If she wants this submitted name, the submission should be returned to change her authenticity and 'no major change' requests. The earliest I can find a similar name to Fiordalisa is Manfred King of Sicily's daughter Flordelis c. 1297, Wikipedia and mentioned at another site as FLORDELIS of Sicily (-after 27 Feb 1297)
It's going to be difficult to turn the submitted name 16th C. into a 11th century name from Lombardy since we don't know if Fiordalisa was in use as a given name in that spelling at that time. Double given names were not used at that time. Germanic/Lombardic names were still in use and afaik documents were written in Latin, so Lombardic names were latinized. *If* 11th C. docs can be found for Flordelisa, etc. it would probably be in written in Latin documentary form like Flordelisa Thomasi or Flordelisa filia Thomasius. These are my guesses on spellings.
If she wants a 11th C name from Lombardy, or where the Lombards were in Italy she needs to do some more research. Unless there are more articles or names lists of 11th C Lombardy elsewhere on the web the only sources for women's names are Ary's article 'A handful of early southern Italian feminine names' Url: and which lists several Lombardic names from “And Her Name Was. . .?” Gender and Naming in Medieval Southern Italy by Patricia Skinner, Medieval Prosopography, History and Collective Biography, vol. 20, 1999. The names appear to be Latinized. The website names are not sorted into Latin, Greek or Germanic/Lombardic names as I have done in an earlier document (listed below). [MB]

Maridonna forwarded an exhaustive list of Lombardic names to me, which I sent on to Fiordalisa. Further commentary with then lady has resulted in her requesting that the current name submission go ahead as is (as an Italian name), along with many thanks to Maridonna, and she'll consider a Lombardic replacement/alternate at a future date. [MMM]

Marek the Jew (Twin Moons): NEW DEVICE CHANGE: Argent, a Star of David gules and a bordure embattled per saltire sable and gules.

Nest verch Rodri ap Madyn (Mons Tonitrus): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, December 2009: Argent, a mullet of five points voided and interlaced within and conjoined to an annulet, on a chief vert two open books Or.

The name was registered February 2009.

The previous submission, Per bend sinister azure and vert, a mullet voided and interlaced within and conjoined to an annulet argent and an open book Or., was returned for the following reason: “ Precedent, set on the Cover Letter for the March 2009 LoAR, says: 'When both are present in a design as part of a primary charge group, or where they would be expected to be a secondary charge, the widget and annulet will both be considered part of the same group.' In this submission, the mullet, annulet, and book are considered to form a single primary charge group on the field. Therefore, this device is returned for violating section VIII.1.a of the Rules for Submissions, which says that "three or more types of charges should not be used in the same group."

If registered, the client wishes to release her currently-registered device, Azure, a sagittary passant and on a chief argent three crescents azure.

Roana le Broc (Wealhhnutu): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Per pale vert and sable, in pale a badger's head cabossed argent marked sable and an oak sprig argent.

Santiago Ramirez de Calatrava (Twin Moons): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, July 2009

Lozengy vert and Or, an English panther rampant argent spotted of divers tinctures incensed azure and sustaining a Latin cross fitchy gules.

The name was registered July 2009.

The original submission, Lozengy vert and Or, a Continental panther rampant argent spotted of diverse tinctures, incensed azure and maintaining a Latin cross fitchy gules., was returned for lack of identifiability. “Due to the extremely pale tinctures used to color this submission and the complexity of the field, the outline of the creature is lost in the field, rendering the primary charge unidentifiable. It is also returned for blurring the distinction between an English and a Continental panther. The Continental panther is frequently horned, has eagle's forefeet, and often has a long neck. The English panther is a maneless lion (ounce) which is incensed and spotted of various tinctures. The outline of the monster in this submission is that of a Continental panther, however, the spots are a feature found only on English panthers. The use of multicolored spots on the body of a Continental panther blurs the distinction between the two types of monster. Since the difference between the two is a significant difference, worth a CD, and not merely an artistic difference, blurring the distinction between English and Continental panthers is not acceptable. On resubmission, the submitter should take care to avoid conflict with Styria (important non-SCA arms), Vert, a Continental panther rampant argent incensed proper. There is currently a CD for the change of tincture of the field. There is no difference granted for the presence of the cross in this emblazon, since it is small enough that it is considered maintained. Removing the spots from the current submission to make it clearly a Continental panther would create a design in conflict with Styria. Please instruct the client that the correct depiction of a cross fitchy would have the lower limb replaced by a spike which slopes constantly for the entire length, not with the very end sharpened like a pencil.”

The client has chosen to use an Enligh panther, has corrected the depiction of the cross, has enlarged the cross so that it is sustained rather than maintained and has used trusty old Crayola markers to complete his forms.

The following submissions were registered by the S.C.A. College of Arms, December 2009:

Ælfwin Ironhair. Badge. Per pale gules and Or, two scorpions counterchanged.

Beatriz Teixeyra Drago. Device. Gules, a flame and on a chief Or three gouttes azure.

Bryce O'Neill. Name and device. Per chevron azure and gules, on a chevron between three wolves rampant argent, three pairs of battle-axes in saltire gules.

The byname O'Neill was documented from MacLysaght, The Surnames of Ireland, which source was ruled unacceptable as the sole source of documentation on the July 2007 Cover Letter. Rowel provided alternative documentation for the byname:

There's evidence for <O Neill> in 1601 (see below). This set of records has the names in Anglicized Irish and includes scattered examples of <O'...> forms, so <O'Neill> should be fine for Anglicized Irish circa 1601 based on these docs.

Source: "Appendix III: Fiants of the Reign of Queen Elizabeth". pp. 29-276. The Seventeenth Report of the Deputy Keeper of the Public Records in Ireland. (Dublin: Alex. Thom. & Company, 1885). Record 6489 (year 1601) lists on p. 174 near the beginning of the record: Cormack O Neill, Henry O Neill, Tirlagh O Neill, and others

Thus, the name is registerable as submitted.

Caterina Giovanna da Monte. Name and device. Per chevron azure and gules, three horses rampant one and two and a fleur-de-lys argent.

Please instruct the submitter to draw all charges to better fill the available space.

Claire de Beaumaris. Name and device. Or, a triple-towered castle and on a chief embattled azure three swans naiant Or.

Please instruct the submitter to use less internal detailing on the swans, so they are easier to recognize.

Crespin le Vasseur. Name.

Submitted as Crespin Le Vasseur, the article was not capitalized in the documentation. We have made this correction.

Ichijou Sukeaki. Name change from holding name William of Mons Tonitrus and device change. Sable, a monkey sejant guardant Or.

Submitted as Ichijou Ichisaru Sukeaki, there were problems with the documentation and construction of the yobina Ichisaru. The LoI justified Ichisaru as a constructed name based on ichi 'one', dated to 1332 as part of a surname, and saru 'monkey', dated to 1600 as part of a given name. However, no argument was given that the combination of an element found in a surname with an element used in a given name can result in a reasonable yobina (given name), nor that the meaning 'one monkey' is a plausible meaning for a yobina. Additionally, the yobina mixes onyomi (Chinese) and kunyomi (Japanese) readings of the kanji characters in a single name element. Precedent states that mixing onyomi and kunyomi readings in a single name element is not registerable (v. Uraji Tarou Noritatsu, LoAR 08/2002, Meridies-R). Lacking evidence that such a combination is plausible in period, this ruling is still valid. As the submitter allows all changes, we have dropped the problematic element. The resulting name consists of a family name + nanori, a formal given name. This construction is not common in Japanese, but it is found, as indicated by precedent: There was some question whether this name followed construction patterns found in Japanese names. We believe it does reflect a documentary form, the form [surname] + [nanori] (a nanori is a formal name reserved to the aristography [sic], according to Solveig Throndardottir, Name Construction in Medieval Japan). This is the form of the name that would appear on official documents. However, the form [surname] + [yobina] + [nanori] is considerably more likely, especially for the 16th C (the yobina is a less formal "use" name). [Yamahara Yorimasa, LoAR 03/2006, Æthelmearc-A]

His previous device, Vert, on a plate a stag's head cabossed sable, on a chief embattled argent a roundel between an increscent and decrescent sable, is retained as a badge.

Isabella Evangelista. Badge. Per bend sinister ermine and checky gules and Or.

Ívarr haukr. Device. Gules, a hawk striking Or between three arrows argent.

Mikael Thorsson inn irski. Device. Azure, within a mullet voided and interlaced within and conjoined to an annulet argent a Thor's hammer Or.

This is in conflict with the badge of Elyn de Hauocmore, Azure, a mullet voided and interlaced, within and conjoined to an annulet argent, registered last month. Commenters were divided on whether or not the Thor's hammer was worth a CD. Had the submission been a solid mullet charged with a Thor's hammer, this hammer would be acceptably large as a tertiary charge. There is a CD for adding a tertiary charge, even such a small tertiary charge. Therefore, there is a CD for the addition of the secondary Thor's hammer. Elyn has provided a blanket permission to conflict for armory which is one countable step from her armory, so this device may be registered.

Natal'ia Diekova vdova Rabynovicha. Name change from Natal'ia Diekova zhena Rabynovicha.

The submitter has permission for her name to be presumptuous of the name Diek Rabynovich. The elements Natal'ia, Diekova, and Rabynovicha are grandfathered to her. Her previous name, Natal'ia Diekova zhena Rabynovicha, is released.

Osric of Blæcwudu. Name change from holding name Osric of Atenveldt.

Submitted as Osric of Blæcw{o-}d, the byname of Blæcw{o-}d was documented as a coined locative byname constructed from Old English blæc 'black' and w{o-}d 'wild, frenzied'. However, no evidence was provided, and none could be found by the College, that a compound meaning 'black wild' or 'black frenzied' is a plausible Old English place name. Lacking such evidence, Blæcw{o-}d is not registerable in the context of a locative byname.

If Blæcw{o-}d was not registerable, the submitter noted that he would accept an appropriate Old English locative byname meaning 'of Blackwood'. Correct Old English forms of 'of Blackwood' include of Blæcwudu and æt Blæcwudu. We have changed the name to Osric of Blæcwudu in order to register it.

Ségán Ó Catháin. Name (see RETURNS for device).

This name combines Middle Irish and Early Modern Irish, which is a step from period practice.

Sylvia of Atenveldt. Holding name and device (see RETURNS for name). Azure, a horseshoe inverted and winged within a bordure Or.

Sylvia has permission to conflict with the device of Phelan Ó Coileàin, Azure, a horseshoe inverted within a bordure Or.

Submitted under the name Saba Ó Coileáin.

Willelmus Macmanus. Name change from holding name Willelmus of Brymstone.

This does not conflict with Liam McManus. While Willelmus is a Latin form of William, and Liam is a diminutive of Uilliam, the Gaelic form of William, Liam is not a diminutive of Willelmus. The two given names look and sound significantly different, so they are clear by RfS V.1.a.i.

The following submissions have been returned by the College of Arms for further work, December 2009:

Melissa de Monstrum Aula. Name change from holding name Melissa of Atenveldt.

This is returned for lack of documentation for the byname. The only support provided on the LoI for the byname de Monstrum Aula was the statement that "The byname is Latin 'Monster Court/Hall'." No documentation was provided that the construction is grammatically correct for Latin or that a Latin phrase meaning 'Monster Court/Hall' is a plausible medieval place name. Such evidence is required for registration.

The only context in which the College could find evidence for Latin aula being used in placenames is the names of university colleges and halls. Siren comments:

<Aula> is certainly used in Latin contexts, along with <domus> and other words to translate the word "hall" in referring to colleges. One example is <aulae vocatae Heynesseyhall> 'the hall called Heynesseyhall' dated to 1407 and the less clearly dated <Aula Trabina> or <Aula Boemie>, named after Gilbert de Biham, who flourished c. 1249. (These are taken from W. A. Pantin, "The Halls and Schools of Medieval Oxford: an Attempt at Reconstruction." In Oxford Studies Presented to Daniel Callus. Oxford: Clarendon Press, for the Oxford Historical Society. 1964.)

In these examples, the name of the hall is not Latinized, only the designator is, thus we would expect to see Monster, not Monstrum, in conjunction with Aula.

Additionally, there is evidence that English university college names were used in locative bynames; Emden, An Oxford Hall in Medieval Times, p. 49 dates John de Unicornhall to 1325, and Searle, Grace book: containing the records of the University of Cambridge for the Years 1501-1542 dates Dobbes de aula Gunwell to 1502-3, Samson de aula Clar' to 1516-7, and Mr. Rydley of Penbrooke hall to 1531-2. Thus, if Monster could be justified as a name of a university college, then either de Aula Monster or de Monsterhall would be registerable under this model.

Unfortunately, no new evidence was provided by the submitter, and none found by the College, justifying Monster as a plausible name of an English college. In the submitter's previous submission (Melissa of Monster Hall, LoAR 04/2008, Atenveldt-R), commenters noted that the Irish county Munster is recorded in English as Monster in 1536 in Gairdner, ed., Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 11: July-December 1536, entry 265, and that there is a Dutch city whose name is recorded in English as Monster in 1546 in Gairdner & Brodie, eds., Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 21 Part 1: January-August 1546, entry 330. However, no examples of English colleges named after foreign cities or counties were provided. Lacking such examples, or independent reason to believe that Monster is a plausible name for an English college, the byname de Aula Monster is not registerable.

Nest verch Rodri ap Madyn. Device change. Per bend sinister azure and vert, a mullet voided and interlaced within and conjoined to an annulet argent and an open book Or.

Precedent, set on the Cover Letter for the March 2009 LoAR, says: “When both are present in a design as part of a primary charge group, or where they would be expected to be a secondary charge, the widget and annulet will both be considered part of the same group.” In this submission, the mullet, annulet, and book are considered to form a single primary charge group on the field. Therefore, this device is returned for violating section VIII.1.a of the Rules for Submissions, which says that "three or more types of charges should not be used in the same group."

Saba Ó Coileáin. Name.

This is returned for lack of documentation that the given name Saba was used by ordinary people in our period. Saba was documented from a Gaelic legendary history, in which Saba is the name of a great-grandson of Noah. Gaelic names which are only found in legendary texts are generally not registerable:

As past precedents indicate, Gaelic names which are only documented as names of legendary people are in general not registerable:

The only examples of the name Culann found by the submitter's were in the "Táin Bó Cúalnge" from the Book of Leinster (online at the CELT site, Here is it the name of a wholly legendary character from whom the hero Cú Chulainn derives his name. Barring documentation that the name Culann [was used] in non-legendary contexts in period, it is not registerable. [Culann mac Cianain, LoAR 09/2007, East-A]

Given this, there is no documentation for Luan as anything but a legendary name. As it can be documented only as a legendary name, it is not registerable. [Luan an Fael, LoAR 11/2007, Lochac-R]

[Brion mac Donnchad, LoAR 12/2008, Middle-R]

None of the commenters were able to find alternative documentation for Saba; lacking such documentation, it is not registerable.

Listed on the LoI as Saba Ó Coilean, both the forms and the documentation spelled the byname Ó Coileáin. We remind submissions heralds of the importance of making sure that names are listed on OSCAR in exactly the same spelling that they appear on the forms. Discrepancies between the two can result in the name being pended for further commentary. The byname Ó Coileáin is grandfathered to the submitter, whose brother's registered name is Phelan Ó Coileáin.

Her device has been registered under the holding name Sylvia of Atenveldt.

Ségán Ó Catháin. Device. Quarterly vert and sable, a sinister wing argent.

This device is returned for conflict with Dante Alighieri (important non-SCA arms), Azure, a sinister wing argent. There is a single CD for the changes to the field.

Please instruct the submitter, on resubmission, to draw a more standard wing: the differing orientation of the feathers makes it hard to identify the wing.

Seloue McDaid. Name.

This is returned for lack of documentation of the byname McDaid. The byname was submitted under the grandfather clause, citing the registered name of Seamus McDaid. However, no proof of relationship between Seloue and Seamus was provided, so the grandfather clause cannot be appealed to. As no alternative documentation for McDaid could be found, we are forced to return this name. Pelican Emeritus notes that the similar byname Daid is dated to 1588, 1592 1599 in William Brigg, The parish registers of Otley, Co. York, volume 33, pp. 9, 12, 19. Additionally, the Anglicized Irish byname M'Deyt, which is a scribal abbreviation for MacDeyt, is dated to temp. Elizabeth I - James I in Woulfe, Sloinnte Gaedheal is Gall: Irish Names and Surnames, s.n. Mac Daibhéid. However, the change from McDaid to either Daid or MacDeyt is a major change, which the submitter does not allow. The LoI documented Seloue as a Latin genitive spelling dated to 1202; normally, inflected forms such as this are not registerable. However, this spelling is also the expected Middle English nominative form, so in this particular case, Seloue is acceptable.

Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy

c/o Linda Miku

2527 East 3rd Street

Tucson AZ 85716

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