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Kingdom of Atenveldt Home Page

Kingdom of Atenveldt
Heraldic Submissions Page

(administered by the Brickbat Herald)


Unto Their Royal Majesties Phelan and Marianna; Lord Seamus McDaid, Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,

Greetings from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Brickbat Herald!

This is the February 2005 internal Atenveldt Letter of Presentation. It precedes the external LoI that will contain the following submissions that are presented here, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry: Please have comments or questions to me, on any armorial matter, by 10 March 2005.

Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too:

Heraldry Hut: The next Heraldry Hut is scheduled for Friday, 25 February 2005, beginning at 7:30 PM.

Please consider the following submissions for the March 2005 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

Caroline Marie de Fontenailles and Elsbeth von Sonnenthal (Granite Mountain): NEW HOUSEHOLD NAME “Domus Mons Solaris” and BADGE

Per chevron azure and gules, a demi-sun issuant from the line of division Or and a bordure ermine.

Caroline’s name was registered November 1994; Elsbeth’s name was registered September 1997.

The household name is Latin, “House Mountain of the Sun.” Colm Dubh’s “English Inn and Tarn Names of the Middle Ages,” KWHS Tir Ysgithr 1998, A.S. XXXIII, pp. 168-9, show Sun as a period tavern name (as le Sonne) in 1374 and again in 1503. Kwellen-Nal Kollskeggson’s “Period Order Names,” KHWS Midrealm 2001, A.S. XXXVI, p. 49, show Spain’s Order of Montjoie (founded in Palestine 1180-1221), Palestine’s Order of Mont Joy and Order of Mount Carmel (1100/1607) and Spain’s Order(?) of Montfrac 1221. See commentary below for Johnathan’s household name for similar concerns about this formation of the household name.

Johnathan Crusadene Whitewolf the Younger (Atenveldt): NEW HOUSEHOLD NAME “Caestus Solaris” and BADGE

Quarterly sable and gules, a sun argent charged with a clenched gauntlet gules.

The personal name was registered June 2001.

The household name is Latin, “gauntlet of the sun.” The caestus is a hand covering made of leather straps, often weighted with iron or lead, worn by ancient Roman boxers. (Cassel’s New Compact Latin-English English-Latin Dictionary, Funk and Wagnalls Company, Inc., NY, 1963, pp. 29, 209; for caestus). The grammatical construction of the name is correct; I don’t know that it follows period constructions of household names, inn names or order names. Looking at “Project Ordensnamen” ( ), there is an infrequent pattern of <thing + thing>, as is also the case of inn names (Cestus and Sun), and an example of <thing + name> (the period Wing of St. Michael). We’ve run into issues before of having “things” belonging to the sun, since the sun isn’t an entity like a person which would own things. However, it might be weakly argued here that as a Latin construction, the sun is recognized as a physical representation of a deity like Apollo or Phoebus, the Roman gods of the sun, and the thing of the name might be associated with a god, much like arrows or the lyre is also associated with Apollo. In the words of Linda Richmond: discuss.

Livia Alexandra Severa (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Gules, within an orle gemel sale and gules, a cobra coiled and erect affronty sable on a center ermine, a bordure wavy ermine.

The name is Latin. All elements are found in the Biographical Dictionary of Ancient Greek and Roman Women, M. Lightman and B. Lightman, Facts on File, Inc. Livia Drusilla (58 BCE-29 CE), the daughter of Marcus Livius Drusus Claudianus, married Caesar Augustus (and is referred to in this book as a “power broker,” which is a rather politic description of her!), p. 143. Alexandra (1st C. BCE), daughter of John Hyrcanus II, a Jewish high priest, attempted the overthrow of her son-in-law, Herod the Great, p. 14. Julia Aquilia Severa (3rd C. CE) was a Vestal Virgin who was forced to marry the emperor Elagabalus, p. 125. While I don’t believe most Roman women’s names used the three-part system seen in men’s names (but rather a two name form, the father’s nomen being the feminized, as is seen with Livia, from Livius, and sometimes a cognomen/nickname to distinguish them from others in the family), the Vestal Virgin’s citation above, and some entries in “Roman Names” ( ) from the Medieval Names Archive, do tend to support them, although infrequent. This reference shows Livius as a male nomen (so Livia would be the feminine form for his female offspring), and it also shows Severus, probably meaning “grave, serious, strict” (hence, Severa) as a period cognomen. There is no reference here for Alexandra, since Alexander is a Greek name. However, Alexander the Great was reknown in Roman times. The submitter will not accept major changes to the name.

Oh, my. When I first saw this, I thought something odd was being done to the orle (wavy on the outside). Reading the blazon, I discovered that the field is gules, that the orles (two of them) are very, very narrow, that there is a bordure wavy, and that the overall suggestion is that there’s a charged escutcheon ermine lying on the gules field. Orles need to lie on a field that is the same tincture within and without the orle–they do not define the end of one tincture on the field and the start of another. Even if that weren’t the case, there is a tincture violation with the sable orle lying against the gules field. The orles are also far too thin, and if everything else were acceptable, this would be returned for redrawing because of that. (I’m sure some of our other commenters can elaborate on this much better than I.) This would work very well if an ermine field, a sable cobra, and an orle gemel gules were used (even alternating sable and gules on the two orles could probably work). Less close to the original tinctures but close to the original design might be a gules field, an argent cobra and argent orle (I’d lean toward a single orle, because things are getting tight along the bordure) and an ermine bordure wavy. The original design has a good number and size for an ermine treatment.

Roger Mighel de Ryes (Atenveldt): NEW BADGE

The name was registered April 1993 (please note this is the registered spelling of the client’s name).

Azure, a spur within a bordure rayonny Or.

The following submissions appear in the February 2005 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

This month’s commentary is provided by Aryanhwy merch Catmael [AmC], Katherine Throckmorton [KT], Knute Hvitabjörn [KH], and Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy [MMM].

Amalric d’Acre (Twin Moons): BADGE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, May 2004

(Fieldless) A rat sejant erect sustaining a roundel sable.

The name was registered April 2004.

The original submission, (Fieldless) A rat sejant erect, paws resting atop a roundel sable., was returned for violating RfS VII.7.b, Reconstruction Requirement. “The relative sizes or the roundel and rat generated much discussion as to whether the roundel was sustained or maintained. The size is such that we cannot come up with a blazon that adequately describes this "so that a competent heraldic artist can reproduce the armory solely from the blazon." The roundel should be made either larger (so as to be co-primary) or smaller (to be maintained)...” The emblazon has been modified so that the rat is clearly sustaining the roundel and that they are co-primary charges.

Cináed Óg (Iron Wood Loch): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Or, a hulk sable, a chief wavy sable bezanty.

Great name, though it would really be better if he went with a spelling that is linguistically compatible with the given name. To be compatible with Óg, I recommend going with the Early Modern spelling of Cináed, which is Cionaodh. The name is found in the Early Modern period - Mari has it in once in 1260, so it just slips in over the line. ( [AmC]

Elizabet Alfinnsdottir (Windale): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, March 2004

Per bend sinister vert and sable, on a bend sinister between two unicorn horns bendwise sinister Or, a vine throughout vert.

The name was registered July 2004.

The client’s original device submission, Sable on a bend sinister a vine throughout vert., was returned for conflict. Partially changing the tincture of the field and adding secondary charges clear the conflict without running into new ones.

Elizabeth M’Kena O’Bannon (Atenveldt): NEW NAME CHANGE from Elizabeth Mac Kenna Mac Gavin

If this is an issue for the lady, it is of course her prerogative to change her name. She may wish to consider that although Irish women didn’t change their names at marriage that it would not be impossible for a couple to have the same last name without incest being involved. This happened to a friend of mine, her husband’s surname is the same as her maiden name, same spelling and everything, and they don’t appear to be related in any way. That said, the name looks like a perfectly good late period Anglicized Irish name. [KT]

Whoo! Kudos to her for wanting an incest-implying-free name! And I stand by my comments about O'Bannan; MacLysaght's forms are modern and are not eligible for registration without alternative documentation. [AmC]

Elizabeth M’Kena O’Bannon and Dante Mc Gavin (Atenveldt): NEW JOINT BADGE

Per saltire purpure and azure, an anchor between four skulls argent.

Clear. [KH]

Elizabeth M’Kena O’Bannon and Dante McGavin (Atenveldt): NEW JOINT BADGE

Per bend sinister indented azure and sable a sun Or and a sword argent.

Dante’s name appears in the 28 October 2004 Atenveldt Letter of Intent.

Clear. [KH] Unfortunately:

This is not registerable. Precedent says in the June 2004 LoAR: "Katerin ferch Gwenllian. Badge. Per bend sinister nebuly azure and sable, in bend a Norse sun cross argent and double rose argent and azure. "This has an unregisterable low-contrast complex line of division: "...Finally, we no longer allow combining azure and sable with a complex line of division." (Sep 1997, Returns, Trimaris, Tymm Colbert le Gard) This is one of the combinations that has been held to violate RfS VIII.3, Armorial Identifiability, even without a charge overlying it." [AmC] Having contacted the clients, they will submit Per bend azure and sable, a sun Or and a sword argent., straightening the line of division and flipping the original design. [MMM]

Eva die Wölfen (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Or, a wolf rampant gules and on a chief nebuly azure a butterfly argent.

The name is German. Eva is a feminine given name found in “German Given Names from 1495,” Aryanhwy merch Catmael ( ). The byname, suggested by the Academy of Saint Gabriel Report 2880, comments that in many places in Germany between 1300 and 1500, the wife or daughter of a man surnamed Wolf would also have been known by the feminine form of the surname, e.g., Wölfin or Wölfen; this is seen 1349-1408 and again in 1439 and 1519. Therefore, die Wölfin is a fine descriptive byname for the early part of the period the client wishes, with Wölfin or Wölfen and Wolf appropriate for the later part

( ). She’s mixed the spelling Wölfen with die, which doesn’t seem to be much of an issue. She will not accept Major changes to the name submission.

Katrina von Rosenberg (Atenveldt): CHANGE OF HOLDING NAME from “Katrina of Atenveldt,” Laurel June 2004

Originally submitted as Katrina Petronÿa von Rosenberg, that name used a double given name, one Czech and the other Hungarian. No documentation was provided and none found or use of double given names in either of these cultures. Without such evidence, a Czech or Hungarian name using two given names was not registerable Her armory was registered under the holding name Katrina of Atenveldt.

The client has dropped one of the given names. Katrina is a diminutive of Katerina, a common woman’s name in the 15th C. Czech region, according to “Common Czech Names of the 15th & 16th Centuries,” Walraven van Nijmegen ( ). Anna Katrina of Brandenburg (1575-1612) was married to Christian IV, demonstrating the use of the diminutive in period. The von Rosenburg family was an influential family in Bohemia during late period; C(eský Krumlov Castle was inherited by the Rosenbergs in 1302 when the Lords of Krumlov died out, and the family had their seat there up till 1602. ( ).

Lucrezia di Bartolomeo (Tir Ysgithr): BADGE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, June 2004

Purpure, on a heart argent, a double-horned hennin gules, trimmed Or.

I think the trimming helps. I'm still not 100% sure I can identify this without knowing in advance what it is.

Conflict with Cecelia de Lacy of Sherborne (reg. 12/86 via Ansteorra), "Purpure, on a heart argent, a cross moline purpure." There is one CD for the changes to the tertiary. For her alternate, it appears clear of Jean Teresa Violante of Heather and Arn (reg. 03/1975), "Purpure, on a heart Or a violet slipped and leaved proper," with a CD for the changes to the tertiary, and one for the bordure. [AmC]

Using the heart argent, there are conflicts with Cerelia de Lacy of Sherborne: Purpure, on a heart argent, a cross moline purpure., single CD for multiple changes to the tertiaries; and Paul of Hameldone: Purpure, a heart gules fimbriated, overall two rapiers inverted in saltire argent., since this can be reblazoned as Purpure, on a heart argent another gules all surmounted by two rapiers inverted in saltire argent., so that there is 1 CD overall rapiers, CD RfS X.4.j.ii. [KH]

The client will submit Purpure, on a heart Or, a double0horned hennin gules, trimmed argent and a bordure Or.

Sancha Galindo de Toledo (Tir Ysgithr): TRANSFER OF ALTERNATE SOCIETY NAME TO PRIMARY SOCIETY NAME from “Tatiana Laski Krakowka,” and DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, April 2004

Azure, an owl contourny Or within an annulet of alternating mullets and roundels argent.

The client’s current primary persona name, Tatiana Laski Krakowska, was registered in September 2000; the alternate name, Sancha Galindo de Toledo, was registered in January 2004. Having consulted with the client, she asks that this switch be made and Tatiana be retained as an alternate persona name.

This isn't really an annulet. It's more of "between four mullets in cross and four roundels two and two." [AmC]

Knute also reblazons this, as Azure, an owl contourny Or between in cross four mullets and in saltire four roundels argent. There are reproducibility issues with the submitted blazon. Also, an indeterminate number of charges an annulet of mixed type charges gives me a twitch along the lines of the ban of mixed type semys. “...Please advise the submitter to make some changes to the artwork. The submitter should be careful to draw the owl's body entirely in profile, rather than having the chest portion tilted slightly towards the viewer. An owl in a truly three-quarter view (also known as "trian aspect") would have had to be returned for a nonperiod heraldic posture. [Alfgeirr skytja, 03/03, A-Calontir] Precedents - François, under BIRD -- Owl” This [depiction] is pushing trian aspect. [KH]

I think either blazon modification proposed is much more accurate than the original, providing that the client intends to render this always with four mullets and four roundels in this orientation. Having consulted with her, she’s willing to keep this arrangement of charges and it is being sent on with the modified blazon. [MMM]

Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy

c/o Linda Miku

2527 East 3rd Street, Tucson AZ 85716;


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