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Kingdom of Atenveldt Home Page

Kingdom of Atenveldt
Heraldic Submissions Page

(administered by the Brickbat Herald)

1 February 2002, A.S. XXXVI

Kingdom of Atenveldt

Unto Their Royal Majesties Mathias and Elzbieta; Mistress Magdelen Venturosa, Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,

Belated Greetings of the New Year from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Brickbat Herald!

This is the February 2002 internal Atenveldt Letter of Intent. (Just so you know and everyone is on the same page, there was NO January 2002 internal or external LoI's...I had two submissions and just couldn't justify the preparation and production of LoI for two of them...this month sees a lot of heraldic activity). It precedes the external LoI that will contain the following submissions, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. You are encouraged to comment upon these submissions, whatever your experience level (yes, even on those that have already been sent on to Laurel-if a correction needs to be made, I can pass it on). Please have your comments to me on the submissions being considered for the 1 February LoI by 20 February. I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry:

There are some definite PROBLEMS with those submissions being considered this month (conflicts and lack of documentation; I would like the local herald to try and rectify these problems so that the submissions do not have to be returned-I have a feeling they might be submissions made with Crown Lists in view, and to have a submission returned just before Crown can't be a good thing...) On the positive side, I have received submissions from the Baronies of Atenveldt, Tir Ysgithr and Ered Sul, the Shires of Iron Wood Loch and the almost Hawk's Rest, so something is going on out there!

Estrella War Consultation Table, Town-Crying, Etc.: You are encouraged to volunteer in any (or all capacities) of heraldry at the War. I can only speak from the armorial standpoint, but please consider spending a few hours at the Consultation Table (it will be open Wednesday-Sunday, schedule in the Site Handbook), located in Merchants' Row. Even if you don't think you'd have much to contribute, you will! This is a great time to see how the consulting and submissions process works (all right, how it works in a very frenetic fashion), and to look at some great references. If you can trace, color, or grab books, those are all basic but very needed skills at the Table.

Atenveldt College of Heralds Meeting: There will be a short CoH meeting on Saturday of the War at 3:00 PM, at the Consultation Table area. We've tried to schedule it so most likely everyone will be at the War and will be fought out/shopped out/artsed out. I don't know what the schedule is, or if this is primarily a meet the other folks in the CoH, but if you have topics that you want to see discussed, please contact Mistress Magdalen or me with them.

Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used!) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too: There are a number of new books of interest (heraldry and otherwise) that are available for sale.

Please consider the following submissions for inclusion in the 1 March 2002 Atenveldt LoI:

Ahlrich von dem Türlin (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Gules, on a chevron argent, three water bougets sable.

The name is German. Ahlrich is derived from Ahlwardt c. 1250; it is a German given name (p. 8, Column A, Hans Bahlow, Dictionary of German Names, translated by Gentry, 1993). Ulrich von dem Türlin was a 13th C. Austrian author, the writer of Arabel (,,709).

The water bougets need to be larger, to more readily fill the space provided by the chevron. This is also in conflict with Patrick Loch Mer: Gules, upon a chevron argent a morningstar with chain in chevron sable. While Rules for Submission X.4.j.ii.a does give 1 CD for the differences on the ordinary, there is no second CD to avoid conflict.

I am holding the name; if the device problem can be solved, I'll send them together in next month's LoI.

Lazarus Artifex (Atenveldt): NEW BADGE

Per pale Or and azure, a phoenix and a bordure counterchanged.

The name was registered June 1991.

Any conflicts aside, the bordure here is TOO NARROW; it needs to be at least twice the current width. This has been reason alone for return at the College of Arms level.

Sibilla of Atenveldt (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Sable, on a chevron inverted argent, three water bougets gules.

Sibilla is derived from Greek, referring to the prophetic female oracles of the classical world; this spelling is found in the English Curia Rolls 1196-1215 (pp. 267-268, Withycombe). Atenveldt is the submitter's home barony (and home kingdom).

The water bougets need to be larger. While Ahlrich provides a letter of permission to conflict with his proposed armory (and vice versa), none is needed: there is one Clear Difference for difference in field tinctures, and 1 CD between the primary charges (the chevon vs. the chevron inverted).

There is a conflict with Bruce of Rokkehealdon: Sable, on a chevron inverted argent three stags heads couped affronty gules. While Rules for Submission X.4.j.ii.a does give 1 CD for the differences on the ordinary, there is no second CD to avoid conflict. (This is in even greater "conflict" than Ahlrich's: he gains a CD for two differences in the types of tertiary charges (one morningstar vs. three bougets), while Sibilla, except for this rule, would not garner even that (there is only one difference, in the type of charge, not the number or the tincture).

I am holding the name; if the device problem can be solved, I'll send them together in next month's LoI.

The following submissions appear on the 1February 2002 Atenveldt LoI:

Áedán Mac Néill (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

The name is Irish. Áedán is a masculine given name, commonly borne by members of the Church and the laity (pp. 13-14, Ó Corráin and Maguire). Mac Néill suggests an ancestor with the name of Niall (pp. 145-146, ibid.) rather than the direct son of Niall, which seems to be mac (p. 10, ibid.). Either form is acceptable, this is just a niggle on where the byname comes from, a direct reference to one's father or a reference to a founder of the family line.

Brian macSeyfang (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Azure, chevronels argent between three mullets of six points Or.

Brian is an English given name, found in the Honor Rolls 1273 (pp. 53-54, Withycombe); it is also the submitter's legal given name. The byname is an attempt at a German surname with possibly Gaelic overtones (hence the mac). While it doesn't seem likely of the German-Irish link, particularly in the byname, I am more concerned with the fact that Seyfang seems to be a relatively "new" surname; genealogy rolls don't show much before 1850; one emigrant database shows a Seyfang family from Württemberg entering the U.S. in 1864 ( It is derived from the German family name Siefke, according to a dubious "family heritage" online source; Siefke is a German surname, found in Bahlow (p. 474, under Siefert).

Dayone the Dark (Hawk's Rest): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per fess Or and pean, a demi-sun Or charged with a demi-hawk Or.

The byname is English, referring to a person with dark hair or dark complexion; it is found as Darke in 1362 (Reaney and Wilson, p. 95, under Dark). The given name, Dayone, is coined and has been the submitter's use name for several years. She is hoping to find justification for it; she pronounces it "day - own." Unfortunately, we've been able to come up with very little, aside from a Greek boy's name Dion found in the Acts of Paul in the New Testament. Gender of the name isn't an issue. We'd appreciate any lightbulbs that might happen to flash above folks' heads.

If this is an absolute and utter dead-end (I'm afraid that it's heading into that cul-de-sac), the submitter will accept Melissa Dawn the Dark; Melissa is a Greek feminine name, occasionally used by 16th C. Italian writers (Withycombe, p. 217), and it is the submitter's legal given name. Dawn is an undated form of Dawen, which itself dates back to 1332 (Reaney and Wilson, p. 97, under Dawn).

Fiona Ann the Fair (Hawk's Rest): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Ermine, three crescents inverted sable.

The name is English. While Fiona is a 19th C. literary construction, possibly from the Gaelic fionn, "fair," (p. 118, Withycombe), it is SCA-compatible. Other similar, period names are a much better choice (

Ann/e comes from the Hebrew Hannah and became popular in England with the marriage of Anne of Bohemia to Richard II (pp. 25-26, ibid). "The Fair" is a descriptive epithet. (Her sister is Dayone the Dark-and Dayone's the blond one. Go figure.)

There is a close visual call with the armory of Aébfhinn ni Thigearnaigh: Ermine, an alphyn passant between three crescents inverted sable. However, there is 1 Clear Difference between primary charge groups (one alphyn (a type of monster) vs. three crescents inverted) and 1 CD for the addition of a secondary charge group in Aébfhinn's armory-this looks very similar because her choice of a secondary charge group just happens to match Fiona's primary charge group.

Flannacán Ó Duinnín (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Azure, a fess between three trefoils and a lion's head cabossed argent.

The name is Irish. It was apparently (hey, I was there) at Estrella War 2000 and yet I have no record of it being included on and LoI, much less it being acted on by the College of Arms (yeesh). I am sending it up now. Flannacán is a diminutive of Flann and the name of a king of Brega who died in 896 (p. 105, Ó Corráin and Maguire). Ó Duinnín is a Munster surname derived from the given name Duinnín (p. 80, ibid).

Haley Óláfsdóttir (Sundragon): NAME RESUBMISSION from Laurel, July 2000

Her previous submission, Haleya Olofsdottir, was returned for incorrect feminization of a masculine Norse name, Háleygr, and the very rare use, if ever, of a metronymic in an ON name. She is resubmitting her legal given name Haley, and a patronymic Óláfsdóttir, suggested by the College of Arms at the time of the return.

Isabeau Gagnon (Ered Sul): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Argent, a chevron purpure between three lions rampant gules, a bordure purpure.

The name is French. Isabeau is the French form of Isabel(la), p. 164, Withycombe. The submitter provides genealogical research (copies to Laurel) of a Barnabe Gagnon (or Gaignon), a ploughman born c. 1530 in Tourouve, Orne, France. The name is also found under the header Gagne in Dauzat, p. 274.

Jehanne le feu du Christ (Hawk's Rest): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Gules, a fireball within an annulet Or.

The name is French. A Jehanne la Normande is cited in "An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris," by Lord Colm Dubh ( The byname, "the fire of Christ," is a construct from the elements of Christ (a French family name which also gives rise to names such as Christel, Christauffour, de Christofor, and Christman, all in Dauzat, p. 130), and several "fire"/feu -based names in Dauzat, p. 254. Feu is also found in "Sixteenth Century Norman Names," by Cateline de la Mor ( This might be considered a more "devotional" name (perhaps adopted by a person of the clergy?), but it doesn't seem too far removed from a name like Christopher, "Christ-bearer/carrier."

Marceau de Valcourt (Atenveldt): BADGE RESUBMISSION from 1 Oct 2001 Atenveldt LoI

(fieldless) A pair of rapiers crossed in saltire Or surmounted by a fleur-de-lys purpure.

The name was registered July 2001.

The submitter has withdrawn the previous badge submission, (fieldless) A fleur-de-lys purpure surmounted by a pair of rapiers crossed in saltire Or., and he has made this substitution.

Marcus the Christian (Hawk's Rest): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per saltire purpure and argent, in pale a comet bendwise sinister Or, headed of a mullet argent, and a single-horned anvil argent.

Marcus is a Latin praenomen that appears in England as early as 1273 (p. 206, Withycombe). The byname reflects his beliefs (it also stands as a given name and as a family name).

Michel der Riese (Iron Wood Loch): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per bend sinister Or and vert, a talbot passant sable, a bordure counterchanged..

The name is German, "Michael the Giant." Michel is documented to c. 1250 in "Medieval German Given Names from Silesia

Men's Names," by Talan Gwynek ( Similar bynames are seen as family names in English nomenclature; Rannulf le Geaunt, c. 1219, is found in Reaney and Wilson, p. 189, denoting a very large person, or ironically, a very small one.

Stefania Krakowska (Iron Wood Loch): NEW NAME

The name is Polish. Stefania is the feminine version of Stefan/Stephen, and it is cited in "Polish Given Names in Nazwiska Polaków,"

by Walraven van Nijmegen and Arval Benicoeur ( Krakowska is the feminine form of "from Cracow/Krakow" or "a resident of Cracow/Krakow," a Polish city dating to the 11th C. It has been registered as recently by the CoA as September 2000, and several personae hail from the city.

Suzanne du Soliel (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

The name is French. Suzanne is the French form of Susan(nah), from the Hebrew Shushannah (pp. 273-274, Withycombe); it is also the submitter's legal given name. Soleil and other "sun" related bynames are found in Dauzat, p. 554, and du Soliel has been registered as recently as January 1997 by the CoA.

Uilliam Gibson (Atenveldt): NAME RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, 10/01

The original submission, Liam Gibson, used a modern form of Uilliam; the submitter is using a period form. Uilliam is a borrowing from the Old German Willahelm (p. 175, Ó Corráin and Maguire). Gibson is found in the Belfast area, and in Ireland is a name of Scottish origin (p. 123, MacLysaght).

The following submissions were registered by the S.C.A. College of Arms at its September 2001 meeting:

Ailill Lockhart. Name (see RETURNS for device).

The submitter requested a name authentic for the 10th to 11th C and did not specify a language or culture. The given name Ailill is Gaelic and the byname Lockhart is Scots. While this lingual mix is registerable, it is a weirdness. As Reaney and Wilson date Warin Lockard to 1190 and Uruay le Lockhert to 1203, there is no additional weirdness for temporal disparity, making this name registerable. To make this name authentic as the submitter has requested, either Ailill would need to be put into a Scots or English form, or Lockhart would need to be put into a Gaelic form. As we were unable to find forms for either of these changes, we were unable to make this name authentic.

Angelica Blauschild. Device. Azure, a Hungerford knot Or between and conjoined to a dexter and a sinister wing inverted argent a bordure ermine.

David de Cochrane. Name and device. Per fess wavy vert and azure, four closed scrolls bendwise sinister two and two argent tied by ribbons sable.

Good name! Please advise the submitter to draw the scrolls larger. Their identifiability is borderline due to their small size.

Dirk van Muiden. Name.

Submitted as Dirk van het Muiderslot, slot is the Dutch word for 'castle'. While the castle is called Muiderslot or Slot Muider in Dutch, no evidence was found for including slot in a locative byname. The article het is not appropriate without the 'castle' component. With the appropriate grammatical changes after the preposition, the most likely form for a personal name would be Dirk van Muiden.

Elzbieta Rurikovskaia. Name (see RETURNS for device).

Submitted as Elzbieta Rurikovna, the ending -ovna indicates that her father was named Rurik. Her forms say that she intends the name to mean that she is the wife of Rurik, which would take either the form Elzbieta Rurikova zhena ("Elzbieta Rurik's wife") or Elzbieta Rurikovskaia ("Rurik's Elzbieta"). As the latter is closer to her originally submitted form, we have made this change.

Issobell de Lockford. Name and device. Argent, a unicorn couchant and on a chief doubly-enarched purpure three lilies argent.

Submitted as Iosobail de Lockford, the submitter requested a name authentic for the 15th C. The Gaelic form Iosobail and the Scots form de Lockford would not have been mixed in period. As such, we have changed the given name to a Scots form to comply with the submitter's request.

John Michael Midwinter. Badge. (Fieldless) A mascle per fess gules and Or.

Katherine Tapester. Name change from Katrin Aerenlae and device change. Vert, on a maunch argent a domestic cat dormant sable.Good name! Her previous name Katrin Aerenlae and device, Per bend sinister wavy azure and vert, a bend sinister wavy between an eagle rising and a windmill Or, are released.

Mons Tonitrus, Barony of. Order name Ordo Stellae Argenteae.

Submitted as Ordo Stellae Argentae, argenteae is the adjectival form of the noun argentum. We have made this correction.

Rebekah Rose O'Kelly. Name.

Sebastiana Gerynot Fanelli. Device. Per pale gules and purpure, on a pale Or between two rapiers inverted proper a wooden-handled jester's bauble proper hooded alternately purpure and gules.

The previous return (May 2000) was for stylistic reasons but also addressed a possible conflict: "A number of commenters also felt it was in conflict with Einar of Ironhold, Sable, on a pale Or, between two swords inverted hilted Or and bladed argent, a staff sable. There is a CD for the field, so the question was whether there was a significant difference between a staff and a jester's bauble to give a second CD for change of type and tincture of the tertiary charges. Normally I am inclined to give a CD between a jester's bauble and a plain staff, barring evidence that they were not independent charges in period. However, it should be noted that Sebastiana's jester's bauble was drawn so that the staff part was unusually prominent. Any resubmission should make the head of the bauble more prominent relative to staff." In this emblazon, the jester's bauble has an unmistakeable head. As a result, there is now a CD for the change in field tincture and another CD for the type and tincture of tertiary charge.

Tyock MacKay of Marwode. Name change from holding name Karen McKay of Marwode.

The following submissions were returned for further work by the College of Arms, September 2001:

Ailill Lockhart. Device. Per pale vert and gules, a falcon contourny argent.

Conflict with the badge of Rannveigr Haakonardottir, Azure, a falcon close contourny argent. There is only one CD for changes to the field. It also conflicts with Rannveigr's device, Per chevron argent and azure, in base a falcon counter-close argent. There is one CD for the field but nothing for the forced move of the bird to base.

Elzbieta Rurikovskaia. Device. Per pale azure ermined argent, and argent ermined azure, a cross formy counterchanged.

Her name was submitted as Elzbieta Rurikovna. This submission was withdrawn at the request of the submitter.

Nathaniel Constantine of Saxony. Badge. Argent, a sun sable charged with a mullet of four points argent.

The tincture of the mullet was omitted in the Letter of Intent, and no correction was issued. However, a number of commenters correctly deduced the tincture of the mullet. This is in conflict with a badge of the Shire of Smoking Rocks, (Fieldless) On a mullet of seven points pommetty sable a sperm whale naiant argent. There is a CD for fieldlessness, but nothing for changing the sun to a multipointed mullet and nothing for type only of tertiary charge on a sun. This badge also conflicts with Rudiger Macklin, Argent, scaly vert, on a compass star nowed and elongated to base sable, a winged ram salient argent. There is a CD for adding the field treatment, but again, nothing for changing the type of primary charge from a compass star nowy to a sun. A compass star nowy, with its central disk, is even more like a sun than a standard compass star or multipointed mullet. Again, there is no difference for change of type only of tertiary charge on a sun. It also conflicts with Glynn Llan-y-Rhyllwyn, Potenty gules and argent, a sun sable eclipsed argent charged with a mullet throughout sable. Here, there's one CD for the change of the field, nothing for change of type only of tertiary charge, and nothing for addition of the quaternary charge. As well as avoiding the conflicts mentioned above, please advise the submitter to resubmit with a more standard drawing of a sun. Period suns are generally multipointed mullets (sometimes with some wavy rays) which fit into a circle. In this case, the "sun" has points elongated to chief, base, dexter, and sinister.

Steffan le Stalkere. Badge. Per pale argent and azure, a sun counterchanged.

There are three conflicts with this badge. First is a badge of Atenveldt (Jan 73), Per pale argent and azure, a sun in his splendour, with the lone CD for the tincture of the sun. Next is Lettice Godfree (Oct 00), Per pale argent and azure, a compass star and a ford counterchanged, with one CD for adding the ford but none for a compass star versus a sun. Last is Shron Ravenhair's badge for House Sun Star (Sep 84), Per pale argent and azure, on a sun a mullet of four points, all counterchanged, with one CD for the tertiary mullet. All of these are two CD's from Steffen's device, so the Grandfather Clause does not apply in any instance.

The following submissions were registered by the S.C.A. College of Arms at its October 2001 meeting:

Atenveldt, Kingdom of. Badge for the Kingdom Herbalist Guild. (Fieldless) An alembic flask azure charged with a sun Or.

Katlin von Kappel. Badge. Per saltire sable and gules, four fleurs-de-lys bases to center Or.

Kayleigh von Brückenheim. Device. Or, two artist's brushes in saltire sable between flaunches azure each charged with a tower Or.

Sankt Vladimir, College of. Branch name and device. Argent, an angel argent winged and garbed gules crined and cuirassed sable, maintaining in its dexter hand a spear bendwise and in its sinister hand an open book argent, in chief a laurel wreath gules.

Submitted as Saint Vladimir, Incipient College of, the element Saint is English and the element Vladimir is Russian. RfS III.1.a requires all elements in a single name phrase to be from the same language. A placename is a single name phrase. Therefore, Saint Vladimir is in violation of this rule. An exact parallel exists with the precedent:

[Registering Švatý Sebesta, College of.] Submitted as College of Saint Sebesta, RfS III.1.a. requires that each phrase must be grammatically correct according to the usage of a single language. We have translated "saint" to the Czech form, as well as adding the correct "inverted caret" over the S in Sebesta (it is pronounced "Shebesta"). [6/94, p.9]

According to Paul Wickenden, the Russian form of Saint is Sankt. In period, a location named for Saint Vladimir in Russia would have simply have been named Vladimir. In fact, there are three locations with this name. Sankt Petrburg (Saint Petersburg) was intentionally named to follow European practices. Furthermore, it was so named in 1703, so even if it followed Russian naming practices, this example is outside our period. Given this information, we would have dropped Saint to follow documented practices in Russian, but the group allows no major changes. Major changes normally include language changes, which would prevent changing Saint to Sankt. However, the consensus at the decision meeting was that changing Saint to Sankt was more like changing the language of a particle in a personal name (which is normally viewed as a minor change) rather than changing the language of a substantial element (which is a major change). Therefore, we have changed Saint to Sankt in order to register the name. It was felt that the name construction was plausible enough to register. However, given that we have no concrete examples of this construction in Russian in period, it is a weirdness. We have dropped Incipient from the name as the College of Arms does not track this status

.The device blazon appears at first glance to refer to an argent angel on an argent field. However, given the tinctures of the hair, wings and garb of the angel, there is no argent portion of the angel which rests directly on the field. Thus this has no more of a contrast problem than there is in the arms Argent, a cross argent fimbriated azure.

The following submissions were registered by the S.C.A. College of Arms at its November 2001 meeting:

Beatrice Lumini. Badge. Lozengy Or and vert, a gondola prow sable.

Bertrand de Lacy. Name.

Francesca Gerdrudis Kesselheim. Name and device. Gules, a pall inverted Or between two unicorns combattant argent and a natural tiger couchant argent marked sable.

Submitted as Francesca Geredrudis Kesselheim, the form Geredrudis was documented as an Old German form from Withycombe. Withycombe's strength is in English and none of the other forms of this name found by the College included the second "e". We have therefore changed the spelling to Gerdrudis, which appears 44 times between 1250 and 1350 in Mulch, Arnsburger Personennamen: Untersuchungen zum Namenmaterial aus Arnsburger Urkunden vom 13.-16. Jahrhundert (p. 57). Kesselheim is a location in the Koblenz area. It dates to at least 966, when it was mentioned in a charter. Mixing the Italian Francesca with the German Gerdrudis and German Kesselheim is a weirdness. If the submitter is interested in a historical name, the fully German Franziska Gerdrudis Kesselheim would be more authentic.

Hrefna karlsefni. Device. Per pale Or ermined purpure and purpure, a feather argent.

This was pended from the July 2001 LoAR for consideration of a number of real-world badges, associated with the English royal family or their close associates, which use a single white feather as a major design element. The College of Arms did not find a clear pattern suggesting that such a badge design would be presumptuous, nor did the College find any particular real-world white feather badge that appeared to be, in its own right, important enough to be protected in the SCA. Therefore, this may be registered.

Katheryn Slegel. Name.

Submitted as Katheryn von Schlegel, the submitter requested authenticity for the 13th to 16th C (no language/culture specified) and allowed any changes. Schlegel is not a placename. It is a noun meaning 'club, leg (of veal), drumstick'. As such, it is being used as a descriptive byname and the particle von is out of place. All period examples of this byname found by the College are spelled Sl-. To comply with the submitter's request for authenticity, we have changed the byname to the form Slegel dated to 1309 in Bahlow, Deutsches Namenlexikon, (s.n. Schleg(e)l).

Killian M'Cahall. Badge. Azure, in bend sinister two quavers Or.

Pearce Redsmythe. Name change from William of Ravenscroft.

The submitter requested authenticity for 15th C English and allowed no changes. There was some question whether the spelling Pearce is a plausible period given name spelling. Bardsley (p. 605 s.n. Piers) dates Robert Pearce to temp. Elizabeth I, William Pearce to 1601, and Pears Martin to 1541. Given these spellings, Pearce is a plausible 16th C given name spelling. The surname Redsmythe was documented as an occupational byname (referring to someone who works in brass) from the Book of Trades at This text at this website is a modern translation of Eygentliche Beshreibung Aller Staende auff Erden, a work of German verse from 1568. Bardsley (p. 641 s.n. Redsmith) hypothesizes the meaning of this byname as 'goldsmith' and lists John Rodesmithe (?). The source for this citation does not readily indicate a date for this name. However, Bardsley crossreferences to other headers and gives the medium worked in: Whitesmith (tin), Blacksmith (iron), Greensmith (lead or laten), and Brownsmith (copper or brass). As all of these other headers included forms dated to period, it is reasonable to assume that Redsmith is also period. The spelling Redsmythe falls within documented variants for -smith names. His previous name, William of Ravenscroft, is released.

There were no Atenveldt returns at the October 2001 or November 2001 meetings.

I remain,

Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy

c/o Linda Miku

2527 East 3rd Street, Tucson AZ 85716

Atenveldt Submissions Website:


Black, George F. The Surnames of Scotland. The New York Public Library Press, NY.

Ó Corráin, Donnchadh and Fidelma Maguire. Irish Names. The Lilliput Press, Dublin, 1990.

MacLysaght, E. The Surnames of Ireland. Dublin, Irish Academic Press, 1991.

Morgan, T. J. and Prys Morgan. Welsh Surnames. Cardiff, University of Wales Press, 1985.

Reaney, P.H. and R. M. Wilson. A Dictionary of English Surnames, 2nd Edition, 1976 (reprinted 1979).

Withycombe, E.G., The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names, 3rd Edition. London, Oxford University Press, 1977.

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