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Kingdom of Atenveldt Home Page

Kingdom of Atenveldt
Heraldic Submissions Page

(administered by the Brickbat Herald)


Unto Their Royal Majesties Arthur and Gabriela; Master Seamus, Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,

Greetings from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Brickbat Herald and Parhelium Herald for the Kingdom of Atenveldt!

This is the November 2011 Atenveldt Letter of Presentation. It precedes the external Letter of Intent that will contain the following submissions that are presented here, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. Where there any submissions this month, know that I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry and consultation. You can send commentary to me privately at or join “Atenveldt Submissions Commentary” at Yahoo! Groups ( ) and post there. (Commentary is often posted in the next month's Letter of Presentation so that all may learn from it, and we can see how additional documentation or comments may have influenced a submission. Please don't be shy!)

Please have commentary to me for the submissions under consideration for the November 2011 Atenveldt Letter of Intent by 10 November 2011. Thanks!

Heraldry Hut: The next Heraldry Hut will be held Friday, 18 November. For more information, directions, etc., please contact me at your convenience ( ).

Speaking of submissions: I accept direct-to-Kingdom submissions from heraldic clients; this might not be the most favorable route to take, particularly if a group has a territorial herald, and everyone can stay more in the “submission loop” if a submission is made in this fashion. However, in some cases, this is the only reasonable and timely way for a submission to be made. Local heralds need to send submissions on in a timely manner as well (i.e., within one month of receiving a submissions packet). If you cannot connect with me at an event (very likely) or attend Heraldry Hut, submissions need to be mailed within one month (yes, that's important!) of a local herald receiving them, unless there is a reason for return at the local level. My address: Linda Miku, 2527 E. 3rd Street, Tucson AZ 85716.

Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too:

Please consider the following submissions for the November 2011 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

Aiedel O'hEachthigheirn (Twin Moons): NEW NAME and DEVICE (?)

Azure, chape ploye in pale a heart and a phoenix argent.

The given name is said to be a combination of Ailella and Edith, mixing and Irish Gaelic and a Norse/Anglo-Saxon name. I don't know where this concept comes from, other than some of the documentation presented notes that in some languages, syllables/elements/prothemes and deuterothemes (like those of Anglo-Saxon) can be combined to coin possible names. This does not apply to elements from names from different languages.

Local heralds, particularly those on the baronial level who deal with a number of individuals, should direct their clients to the Medieval Names Archives or the names articles section found in the SCA College of Arms ( ). Avoid old baby name books and even supposedly “reputable” name books, those that are cheerfully free of dated sources (one source used here is What's in a Name? Everything You Wanted to Know, Leonard R. N. Ashley); as a rule, all they do is cause a lot of frustration and waste a lot of time. [At least one of the name sources used is found in Appendix F: Names Sources to Be Avoided in Documentation, in the Administration Handbook, including Dunkling's work, and others cannot be used on their own (and combining two does not result in an accurate source – two poor sources do not add up to a reasonable one).]

The client also mentioned that this submission was started in the Outlands but that is never was seen by anyone on a Society level, and I don't know if this means that it was ever officially submitted with the required paperwork and fees. No fees were included with this submission.

All that being said (as I stomp around), Ailell can be found as an early male Irish Gaelic name. Most Irish Gaelic names have a definite gender, and they do not do the feminization thing that many Romance language names do. A woman can use Ailell as a registered SCA, but the rest of the name would have to follow the construction of the name seen for a man. (The source in which I found this does show Ailella, clearly listed as the genitive

form of the name, not a feminine form of it.) Alis is a female IG name dating to 1267 and 1285. Edith is a female English given name. Looking at the name submitted, I'd tend to pronounce it as <Ah-dell>, and that comes close to Adeline, Adelina. These are the closest documentable names I can find on a quick search at MNA.

Ó hEachthigheirn is Anglicized to O Hearne; it (the Anglicization) is found in “16th & 17th Century Anglicized Irish Surnames from Woulfe,” Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada ( ). Any sort of confidence with Irish Gaelic being very shaky, I'm guessing that the name could work as <female IG name + Ó hEachthigheirn> or <female English name + the Anglicized form O Hearne>. Note that the Woulfe citation is for very late Englished period forms of the name. The client desires a female name and is most interested in the spelling and the language/culture of the anme (Irish/Norse descedent combination of Aileela and Edith, “Lord of the horse” -- Gaelic/Irish). MacLysaght notes that the sept's byname comes from the words each, “steed” and tigherna, “lord,” and it migrated from east Clare to Co. Cork (The Surnames of Ireland, 6th edition, p. 2 s.n. Aherne).

Dominic Coltbayne (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per pale vert and sable, a chamfronn argent charged with a cross formy sable, a bordure embattled argent.

The name is English. Dominic(k) came into fashion for both men and women in honor of St. Dominic, founder of the Order of Preachers (d. 1221), according to Withycombe, 3rd edition, p. 85 s.n. Dominic(k). Coltbayn is found dated to 1256 in “"Misplaced" Names in Reaney & Wilson - Sorted By Name,” Jeanne Marie Lacroix ( ), but not this specific spelling.

The bordure would be a lot easier to render if the crenelations were larger and fewer.

Hopkyn Blaidd Du (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME, DEVICE and BADGE

(device) Sable, a chevron Or charged with three crosses formy sable and in chief a vol Or charged with a cross formy sable.

(badge) (fieldless) A winged cardpique per pale sable and gules.

The name is Welsh. Hopkin is a masculine given name dated to 1601 and 1606 in “Some 16th & 17th C Welsh Masculine Names,” Sara L. Friedemann ( ). The names Hopkinus 1224 and Hopkyn 1324 demonstrate the interchangability of -y- and -i- (Reaney and Wilson, 3rd edition, p. 238 s.n. Hopkin). The byname means “black wolf.” Du, “black, dark,” is seen as a byname in “Snapshot of a Cantref: The Names and Naming Practices in a Mawddwy Court Roll of 1415-16,” Heather Rose Jones ( ). Blaidd is seen as a byname in a number of SCA names, registered as recently as 2000 (Idris Blaidd) and 2002 (Cynan Blaidd ap Iago). Cadell Blaidd Du was registered in 1997. The client desires a male name and is most interested in the spelling of the name.

Isabella Ponce (Brymstone): NEW NAME CHANGE, to Isabella Çapata de la Mar

The name is Spanish. Isabella is the English form of the Spanish feminine given name Isabel, found in “Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century,” Juliana de Luna ( ). de la Mar is a locative byname in late 15th C Spain, found in the same source ( ). Çapata is an “other” byname in late 15th C Spain, found in the same source, meaning “shoe” ( ). (I'll have to consolidate all this documentation into a single tidy form!) This source demonstrates women of the period using double surnames ( ): Catalina Rodriguez Corvacha, Catalina Lopes de Mata. There is one step from period practice for the combination of English and Spanish name elements. The client desires a female name and is most interested in the language/culture of the name (15th C. Spanish). She will not accept Major changes to the name. (What would she like done with her currently-registered name?)

Kiera ferch Dafydd (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME AND DEVICE

Per fess argent and checky purpure and argent, in chief a dragon segreant coward sable.

According to Butler's Lives of the Saints, St. Kiara was a female Irish saint, c. 680. “St. Kiara was a female Irish saint, c.680, according to Butler's Lives of the Saints. Kiera has been accepted as a variant spelling (Kiera nic an Bhaird, April 92). (Kiera Lye d'Alessandria, July, 1992, pg. 13, Bruce Draconarium Precedent) Ciar is a feminine given name in Ó Corráin and Macguire, p. 51, s.n. Ciar. The byname is a Welsh patronym, “daughter of David.” Dafydd is found in “Snapshot of a Cantref: The Names and Naming Practices in a Mawddwy Court Roll of 1415-16,” Heather Rose Jones ( ). There is a SPFF for Welsh and Anglicized Irish name combinations; Welsh and Irish Gaelic element combinations is not registerable. This may be the downfall of the name. The client desires a female name and is most interested in he sound of the name. She will not accept Major changes to the name.

Matthew of the Forest (Sundragon): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Lozengy gules and sable, on a bend Or three dragons segreant to sinister gules, winged and bellied vert.

The name is English. The given name was introduced into England by the Normans. There are a number of spelling variations throughout period for the name, although Matthew is the spelling usuallay associated with the Biblical Evangelist (Withycombe, 3rd edition, pp. 231-214 s.n. Matthew). If the client would like to consider similar “foresty”-type bynames, they include de Foresta 1204, ate Forest 1300, del fforest 1354, all indicating a person living in or working in the forest (Reaney and Wilson, 3rd edition, p. 174 s.n. Forrest). Similar names include Forester 1183, le Forester 1240, le Forestier 1322, “an officer in charge of a forest” (R&N p. 174 s.n. Forester).

Petronius Lupa (Sundragon): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per fess sable and azure, a wolf sejant ululant and in dexter chief a round argent.

The name is Latin/Roman. Women were simply given their father's nomen, feminized, and sometimes a cognomen or a nickname such as a diminutive of her father's nomen or cognomen. ( LEGIO XX--The Twentieth Legion: Roman Names, ). This source demonstrates Petronius as a known Latin cognomen, so this is easily feminized to Petronia, and the cognomen can stay as Lupa, the feminine form of the cognomen Lupus, “wolf.” Hah! Petronia Lupa! Easy! The client desires a female name and is most interested in the meaning of the name (“wolf” or “Lupa”). She is most interested in having an authentic Roman name/culture match.

Seelos Massmann (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per pale sable and argent, anvils throughout, on a bend sinister four reremice palewise all counterchanged.

Seel(l)os is found in Bahlow, but not as a given name. Massman is a North German nickname for Thomas (the Apostle), found in Dictionary of German Names, Hans Bahlow, translated by Edda Gentry, p. 349 s.n. Maas, Maass, Massmann; p. 355 s.n. Massmann, Mass, Mas.

I'm afraid that this would be found very visually confusing. While anvils and bats aren't particularly similar, there are so many of them on the field that from any distance, I think they'de look like blobs. Perhaps making the field solid and eliminating some of the counterchanging might alleviate this (Sable, anvils throughout, on a bend sinister argent, four reremice palewise counterchanged.)

Ulrich of Dresden (Sundragon): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Azure, in pale two double-bladed axes in saltire and a unicorn couchant argent, armed, mane and tailed Or.

The name is German. Ulrich is a popular masculine given name found in “German Names from Nürnberg, 1497,” Sara L. Uckelman, . Dresden is a city in Saxony, recognized as a city in 1206 and home to many Saxon princes and kings ( ). The client desires a male name and is most interested in the language/culture of the name; he would like it to be authentic for 13th-16th C. Germany (I think that would be von Dresden).

Yes, the entire tail is Or, not just the tufts, hence I add the “bits” to the blazon.

Valdisa Alarsdottir(Sundragon): NEW NAME AND DEVICE

Per bend vert and sable, a dragonfly and a lotus flower in profile argent.

The name is Old Norse. There is a documented feminine given name Valdís in “Viking Names found in Landnámabók,” Aryanhwy merch Catmael,, along with a feminine given name Dís. According to the Viking Answer Lady, a short-form for names in -dís is Dísa, so that the name Valdísa is possible and only one step removed from historic precedent ( ). (I think it's rather cool that Valdís is a very feminine name without sounding very feminine, and that the terminal -a isn't needed to create a feminine form of a name.) The Viking Answer Lady site demonstrates the masculine given name Álarr ( ), which would change its terminal ending -rr to -rs to form the patronym, Álarsdóttir. I think the name would be more correct with the diacritical marks Valdísa Álarsdóttir, but they should all be included or or omitted.

Wolff Schultz (Sundragon): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Lozengy gules and sable, a double-headed eagle Or.

The name is German. Wolff is a masculine given name found in “German Names from Rottweil, Baden-Württemberg, 1441,” Sara L. Uckelman, . The closest MNA resource I find for the byname is Schulthais, in “German Names from Rottweil, Baden-Württemberg, 1441,” Sara L. Uckelman, . This seems similar to Schultheiss, “Major, judge” from http://surnames.behindthenames/name/schultz; The client desires a male name and is most interested in the language/culture of the name. He wishes it to be authentic for 12th-15th C. Germany.

The following submissions appear in the October 2011 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

Commentary was provided by Aryanhwy merch Catmael [AmC] and Marta [MMM].

Abu Razin Babak al-Basir (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Argent, on a pall inverted vert between three ants in annulo sable a crescent Or.

Caitríona inghean Fáoláin Uí Gearóid (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, September 2011

Or, an oak tree eradicated proper within an orle per pale azure and purpure.

The original name was held because some discussion suggested that it, Caitríona inghean uí Fáoláin, could conflict with Katherine O'Phelan, registered in September 2001 (and when something like this stumps Aryanhwy, we're all stumped):

“<Fáoláin > needs to be lenited, to <Fháoláin >; otherwise the name is constructed properly.

However, this may conflict with <Katherine O'Phelan> (reg. 12/1990 via Atlantia); as the 09/2001 CL notes, "a woman named Caitríona inghean uí Dhomhnaill could have been recorded in Anglicized Irish documents as Catherine O Donnell." I find the discussion of conflict of Irish names on the 04/2002 so opaque as to be nearly impossible to apply in accordance with the RfS as they are written, so I will simply put this out there and say "I haven't a clue". [AmC]

The comments that Aryanhwy made regarding a potential conflict go back to a discussion on Gaelic particles in the September 2001 LoAR Cover Letter:

“Question 2: inghean uí Dhomhnaill vs. O Donnell

Does the Gaelic byname inghean uí Dhomhnaill conflict with the Anglized Irish byname O Donnell? They look and sound significantly different. The byname inghean uí Dhomnhaill means "daughter [of the] grandson [of] Donald". The byname O Donnell means "grandson [of] Donald". Therefore they indicate different relationships. But are the relationships significantly different? This is an important question since a woman named Caitríona inghean uí Dhomhnaill could have been recorded in Anglicized Irish documents as Catherine O Donnell.””

(I don't understand the need for leniting the patronym; it seems to me that it is lenited already, and the nominative form is Faolán. [MMM])

The client has added a clan name that clears this potential conflict. Gearóid is a masculine given name has the same nominative and genitive forms; it is Early Modern Irish Gaelic, dated to 1486 and found in “Index of Names in Irish Annals: Gearóid,” Mari Elspeth nic Bryan

( ).

The original device submission, with an orle azure, conflicted with Teresa de Çaragoça in May of 2005 (via Atlantia): “Or, a tree eradicated proper within a bordure denticulada azure.” with one CD for the type of peripheral. [AmC] Making the orle 50% another tincture provides the second CD.

Clarice Alienor Neep (Tir Ysgithr): NEW BADGE: (fieldless) A turnip proper within and conjoined to an annulet purpure.

No conflicts found. [AmC]

Donndubán O'Domnaill (Tir Ysgithr): NEW DEVICE: Per chevron gules and sable, a chevron embattled between two mazer cups and a compass rose Or.

No conflicts found. [AmC]

Dubhchobhlaigh inghean an Bháird uí Néill (Tir Ysgithr): NEW DEVICE: Per chevron vert and sable, two lanterns and an owl rising wings addorsed maintaining in its talons a rolled scroll argent.

Nicely drawn line of division! This should be clear of Gaston Trévoux (reg. 10/2000 via Atenveldt), "Per chevron vert and sable, three owls argent." There is one CD for changing half the type; and another for changing the posture of half the owls. [AmC]

Elizabeth Wold (Sundragon): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Vert a winged wolf sejant ululant between three crescents argent.

Closest I found is <Isabeau of the Wylde Woode> (reg. 01/1991 via the West); the bynames are significantly different. [AmC]

This is clear of Cáelán Ó Ruairc (reg. 02/2000 via AEthelmearc), Per pale azure and sable, a wolf sejant ululant between three decrescents argent., with a CD for the field, one for adding the wings, and one for the orientation of the crescents; Vs. Arianna McPhearson (reg. 03/1990 via the East), Sable, a fox sejant reguardant, its forepaws grasping an arrow inverted, between three increscents argent., with a CD for the field, and one for the wings; and Vs. Caitrina inghean Aindriasa (reg. 08/2004 via An Tir), Quarterly gules and sable, a winged fox sejant argent., with a CD for the field and one for adding the secondaries. [AmC]

Elspeth von Bremen (Atenveldt): NEW NAME CHANGE, to Elspeth Anne von Bremen

Heinrich der Brauer (Atenvelt): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Azure, a wooden barrel palewise proper winged and a chief argent.

Rodney Brus of Skyraffin (Mons Tonitrus): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Argent, a dragon's head cabossed sable between two arrows in pile gules, barbed and fletched sable.

Trian Ruadh Mac Colmain (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME

Yashka the Nomad (Tir Ysgithr): NEW ALTERNATE NAME, Icka the Goth, and NEW BADGE: Or, a fox's mask between three leaves in pall inverted stems to center purpure and a bordure vert.

Some internal detailing in the mask would improve its identifiability. The badge is clear of Nikodemus Mercator(reg. 10/2001 via Meridies), Or, an alligator's head couped close contourny purpure and a bordure vert.,with a CD for the type of primary and another for adding the secondaries, and similarly considering Richenza the Confused (reg. 12/1993 via the East), Or, an estoile pierced purpure within a bordure vert. [AmC]

The following submissions were registered by the SCA College of Arms, August 2011:

Cáelinn ingen Chatháin. Device. Per chevron argent and vert, two axes in saltire and a rapier inverted counterchanged.

This device is not in conflict with the badge of Illuminada Eugenia de Guadalupe y Godoy, Vert, chape ploye argent, an axe bendwise sinister vert charged on the blade with a mullet Or, a chalice vert, banded Or, and a unicorn couchant argent, armed and gorged of a collar Or. There is one CD for the change in type of at least half the primary charges, and one CD for removal of the tertiary charge.

Griffin Val Drummond. Reblazon of device. Per pale purpure and azure, a griffin segreant maintaining in its dexter talon a morgenstern and in its sinister talon a targe argent charged with a tower azure.

Reblazoned in December 2006 as Per pale purpure and azure, a griffin segreant argent, maintaining in its dexter talon a morgenstern, and in its sinister talon a targe charged with a tower azure, we are clarifying the tincture of the maintained charges.

Helena de Argentoune. Transfer of alternate name Helena Handbasket to Helena Greenwood.

This transfer was pended from the June 2011 LoAR in order to give time for the acceptance of transfer to appear.

Honour Grenehart. Alternate name Umm Sitt al-Jami' `Ismat al-Nabila.

The Letter of Intent asks for clarification on the registerability of the byname al-Nabil(a), which means "honorable, highborn." This byname is not presumptuous.

While many people use "honorable" as a modifier for the protected terms "lord" and "lady", the term "honorable" is not itself a protected claim to rank (in English or in any other language). It was used broadly in period to describe people of a variety of positions, including people who were gentry; "high-born" implies the same rank.

In June of 2003, Laurel ruled that: [Existing] precedent implies that a simple claim of the status of gentry, no higher, is acceptable for registration. Therefore, the submitted name is registerable as it claims a status no higher than gentry. As this name similarly claims a status no higher than gentry, it too can be registered. We note that if this were a claim to rank, it would not be allowed whatever the submitter's personal rank. The current rules do not allow any claims to rank, earned or not, to made in names.

Kendrick MacBain. Device. Per bend sinister Or and vert, a wooden stick shuttle bendwise sinister proper and an awl bendwise sinister point to base argent.

Randolph Caparulo. Device. Per pale and chevronelly inverted Or and azure.

Nice device!

Stella della Luna. Name and device. Purpure mullety, a schnecke issuant from sinister Or.

This device does not conflict with the device of Alexander ben Avram, Purpure, a schnecke issuant from sinister chief, in dexter chief a mullet of six points Or. There is a CD for the change in number of secondary charges. There is an additional CD for the change of the orientation of the schnecke, from issuing from chief to issuing from sinister.

The use of a schnecke with a secondary charge is a step from period practice.

The following submissions were returned by the College of Arms for further work, August 2011:

Victoria of the Vales of Barnsdale. Augmentation of arms. Or, an insect-winged naked woman passant, wings chased, azure, and as an augmentation on a canton azure in pale a coronet and a sun in his glory within an orle Or.

The submitter is a viscountess, and thus entitled to the display of a coronet.

As this augmentation appears to be an independent display of armory, it must be conflict checked as such. It is therefore in conflict with the device of AEthelinda Longa, Azure, in pale a seax fesswise inverted reversed and an escallop, within an orle Or; there is one CD for the change of type of primary charges, but as AEthelinda's device has more than two types of charges on the field, it is not simple and can not be cleared by substantial difference of the primary charge group using Section X.2 of the Rules for Submissions.

The submitter is recommended to use one of the badges already registered to Atenveldt as her augmentation, presuming she would be able to get permission from the Crown. For instance, both the badges Per fess azure and argent, in canton a sun Or (the Kingdom Ensign) and Per pale argent and azure, a sun in his splendor [Or] would work. If she desires to use a coronet in the augmentation, it is suggested that she put the coronet on the head of the primary charge.

Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy

c/o Linda Miku

2527 East 3rd Street

Tucson AZ 85716

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