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Kingdom of Atenveldt Home Page

Kingdom of Atenveldt
Heraldic Submissions Page

(administered by the Brickbat Herald)

1 November 2001, A.S. XXXVI
Kingdom of Atenveldt

Unto Their Royal Majesties Gallchobhar and Haley; Their Royal Highnesses Mathias and Elzbieta; Mistress Magdelen Venturosa, Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,

Greetings from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Brickbat Herald!

This is the November 2001 internal Atenveldt Letter of Intent. It precedes the external LoI that will contain the following submissions, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. You are encouraged to comment upon these submissions, whatever your experience level. Please have your comments to me on the submissions being considered for the 1 December LoI by 20 November. (As there are no submissions at this time-finally, a slowdown!--I encourage you to read updated commentary on those that were included in the November LoI, as well as reasons for return, plus submissions that have been acted upon by the College of Arms.) I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry:

Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used!) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too:

The following submissions appear on the 1 November 2001 Atenveldt LoI:

Aileann inghean Fhrancaigh (Atenveldt): DEVICE RESUBMISSION Kingdom, 9/01 (Argent, on a fess between three trees eradicated vert, three mullets argent, a bordure sable.)

Ann Busshenell of Tylehurst (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

Caisséne ingen Scandlach (Sundragon): N AME CHANGE RESUBMISSION from Máire inghean uí Dhonnabháin, Laurel, 8/01.

Dougal O'Sirideain(Granite Mountain): DEVICE RESUBMISSION Laurel, 7/00 (Sable, a plate charged with a Celtic cross gules between three Thor's hammers argent, those in chief heads to center.)

Gabriel Kenrick (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

Galiena von Lüneberg (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE (Vert, goutte d'eau, a pair of flaunches argent each charged with a leaf vert.)

Gavin McLaren (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE (Per chevron gules and sable, two dragons combattant argent and a lion's head cabossed Or.)

There was a mistake with the byname-it ought to be McLaren, not Shadowhaven. McLaren comes from the Scots Gaelic Mac Labhruinn, "son of Laurence" (Black, pp. 534-5).

Harry the Hewer of Rimwood (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE (Argent, a chevron azure between three trees eradicated vert, a bordure sable.)

Ignacio James (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

José Felipe Francisco un Sastre de Madrid (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE (Vert, a chevron fracted, in chief three crosses flory Or.)

Lavinia Betteresse (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

Linnett Marie de Ryes (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

Mariana Vivia de Santiago de Compestella (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE (Azure, a heart gules, winged argent.)

Minna Mary McGregor (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE ( Argent, a cauldron sable, a chief embattled azure.)

Morgan of the Oaks (Atenveldt): DEVICE RESUBMISSION Laurel, 7/98 (Sable, issuant from a tree stump eradicated argent, a claymore inverted proper, on a chief indented argent three trees eradicated proper.)

Muirgheal inghean Raghailligh mhic Seachnasaigh (Tir Ysgithr): DEVICE RESUBMISSION Laurel, 8/01(Argent, a fret gules surmounted by a badger statant sable a chief indented gules.)

The submission was redrawn, solving the problem of size and identifiability of the badger as mentioned in the Return below.

The following submissions were returned by the Atenveldt CoH, October 2001:

Ann Busshenell of Tylehurst (Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE (Gules, a bend azure fimbriated, in chief an hourglass argent surmounted by a threaded needle bendwise sable.)

This office accidentally received the wrong emblazon, Gules, a bend azure fimbriated between an hourglass and an threaded needle argent., which had the only problem in the needle not being in a "strong" orientation, either bendwise, following the ordinary, or fesswise. This new emblazon violates the Rule of Tincture, as a significant portion of the black needle (which has a strong bendwise orientation) lies upon the red field. In armory, sable is a color, not a fur, and as such must obey the Rules of Tincture. Additionally, the needle, overlying the hourglass, isn't doing it in a symmetrical fashion, "cutting through" the center of the underlying charge; this gives the design an unbalanced appearance.

RETURNED for tincture violation, unbalanced design.

Kathryn von Schlegel (Mons Tonitrus): NEW DEVICE ( Murray, a branch of mulberry Or, a dexter sixth and in sinister chief, a butterfly bendwise argent.)

Murray/murrey/murry is a post-period heraldic tincture. While a tierce is post period in real word use, it has been considered SCA compatible; I think using a diminutive of a post-period charge would be considered reason for return The butterfly gets "lost" among the foliage and makes this an almost landscapy depiction.

RETURNED for use of nonperiod tincture, charge and arrangement of charges.

Liam Gibson (Atenveldt): NEW NAME

The name is Irish and English. Liam is cited by Withycombe as an Irish form of William, and Ó Corráin and Maguire attest to it, only that it is a modern form of Uilliam- and as such, the College of Arms prohibited the registration of Liam as of November 1995 (the gentleman can register William or Uilliam and be known informally as Liam).

RETURNED for use of a post-period name element.

Linnett Marie de Ryes (Atenveldt): NEW DEVICE ( Gyronny sable and argent, a griffin segreant, a bordure gules.)

This is a direct conflict with Loys d'Aramits de Loire: Gyronny sable and argent, a griffin segreant, a bordure gules.

RETURNED for conflict.

The following submissions were registered by the S.C.A. College of Arms, August 2001:

Aron the Falcon. Name (see RETURNS for device).

Submitted as Ari on the Falcon, the given name Arion was documented as the name of a "semi-legendary Greek poet of the 7th C BC, reputedly the first poet to use dithyramb". The suggestion was made that Arion could be viwed as one of the names revived in the Renaissance. Metron Ariston found a reference to this Arion in the poetry of John Gower (circa 1325-1408). However, this is the only reference to Arion that the College found in English works from the Middle Ages. Barring evidence that the Greek poet Arion was more broadly known in England than a single reference in poetry, it is not likely that the name Arion was revived. As such, the documentation stands with only the reference to the 7th C BC Greek poet, which is more than 1000 years before an appropriate date for the byname, and therefore it would be returnable .Bardsley (p. 60, s. n. Aron) dates documents Aron as a variant of Aaron in Middle English. Since the submitter allows any changes and notes that sound is most important, we have registered this name as Aron the Falcon.

Birna Valthjófsdóttir. Name and device. Checky vert and Or, a bear rampant contourny ermine.

Christina of Cork. Name.

Submitted as Christina of County Cork, no documentation was provided for the use of County in a personal byname, nor did the College find any. As such, County has been dropped to register this name.

Edward of Atenveldt. Holding name and device (see RETURNS for name). Argent, a drawn wooden bow and arrow proper fletched and headed sable on a chief azure four mountains couped argent.

This armory was submitted under the name Edward of Cornwall.

Finn hua Cellaig. Name and device. Vert, a lion rampant contourny and a chief Or.

Good name!

Helena Seren de Luna. Name and device. Azure, a crescent Or surmounted by a nude red-headed woman arms upraised proper winged Or.

Submitted as Helena Ser én de Luna, the byname Serén was documented from De Felice's Dizionario dei cognomi Italiani. The accents in this source are there as pronunciation guides, and are not part of the spelling. Mixing Spanish and Italian in a name is registerable, though it is a weirdness.

Ianuk Raventhorne. Name.

Submitted as Ianuk Raventho urne, no documentation was provided and none was found for the "u" in Raventhourne. We have therefore removed it.

Isabel du Lac d'Azur. Badge. (Fieldless) Three thistles conjoined in pall inverted bases to center proper within and conjoined to an annulet Or.

The thistles were blazoned in the LoI as proper. The Glossary of Terms notes some ambiguity in the SCA as to the proper for thistles. The Glossary allows a thistle proper to have either a red or purple flower. The flower is much less than half the charge so its tincture is not heraldically significant, and as a result there is no armorial conflict ambiguity because of this policy. In this submission, the flowers (including the globular part, usually drawn as vert) are purpure. We have preserved the submitted blazon but caution the submitter that if the purple color is important to her, she should submit a request for reblazon.

The thistle flowers are correctly conjoined to the annulet. The annulet is drawn at the edge of the circle of the form, so that at first glance it appears to be a bordure. This sort of depiction should be avoided, as it causes confusion.

Kathryn of Atenveldt. Holding name and device. Per fess wavy vert and sable, in pale a dolmen and two unicorns combattant argent.

In June 2001, her submitted name, Ciara inghaen uí Bheithir , was returned. (This has been resubmitted.)

Sorcha inghean Dhara mhic Seachnasaigh. Device. Per fess azure and vert, a lozenge ployé within and conjoined to the horns of an increscent a bordure argent.

The following submissions were returned by the CoA for further work, August 2001:

Aron the Falcon. Device. Argent, a bend sinister vert between an eagle displayed and a arrowhead inverted azure.

This is in conflict with Ismenia O'Mulryan, Argent, a bend sinister vert between a hawk's head contourny erased azure, armed vert, and a skeletal hand fesswise azure. There is only one CD for changing the type of charges around the bend sinister by RfS X.4.e.

Caisséne ingen Scandlach. Name change from Máire inghean uí Dhonnabháin.

No forms were received for this submission. As such, it must be returned.

Edward of Cornwall. Name.

This name is being returned for conflict with Edward the Black Prince , son of Edward III who was created Earl of Chester in 1333, Duke of Cornwall in 1337, and Prince of Wales in 1343 (Cambridge Biographical Encyclopedia s. n. Edward the Black Prince). RfS V.1.c reads, "Protected historical personal names are protected in all of the forms in which they commonly appear. Charlemagne, which becomes Carolus Magnus in Latin and Karl der Grosse in German, is protected in all three forms." Longstanding precedent says that Edward Duke of Cornwall would conflict with Edward of Cornwall. Thus the question that has to be answered is whether the prince was known as Edward Duke of Cornwall. If so, this submission is in conflict with him. If not, this submission is not in conflict with him.

In the Acts of David II (of Scotland), Edward is referred to as "prince de Gales ducs de Cornewaill' et conte de Cestr'" (p. 177, document dated 3 October 1357) and "prince de Gales ducs de Cornewaill' et counte de Cestre" (p. 190, document dated 6 November 1357). Neither of these references seem to list his name, but do list his titles in descending order of precedence. Speed's The Counties of Britain includes a emblazon of his device on p. 55 as part of a map of Cornwall (drawn 1610). The emblazon is captioned "Edward P. of Wales D. of Cornwall and E. of Chest". Again, his name followed by his titles in descending order of precedence. This gives evidence that he was known by his given name followed by his titles in period. As he was created Duke of Cornwall in 1337 and Prince of Wales in 1343, there is a six year period where his primary title was Duke of Cornwall. During this time, it is reasonable to assume that he was commonly known as Edward, Duke of Cornwall. As such, this submission is in conflict with him and must be returned. We are registering his armory under the holding name Edward of Atenveldt.

Muirgheal inghean Raghailligh mhic Seachnasaigh. Device. Argent, a fret gules surmounted by a badger statant sable a chief indented gules.

An overall charge should lie mostly on the field. Here the badger lies almost entirely on the fret. This is not stylistically acceptable by long-standing precedent. The type of the beast was not identifiable due to the low contrast in combination with the small size and could have been one of a number of compact animals.

I remain,

Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy

c/o Linda Miku

2527 East 3rd Street

Tucson AZ 85716

Atenveldt Submissions Website:


Black, George F. The Surnames of Scotland. The New York Public Library Press, NY.

Ó Corráin, Donnchadh and Fidelma Maguire. Irish Names . The Lilliput Press, Dublin, 1990.

MacLysaght, E. The Surnames of Ireland. Dublin, Irish Academic Press, 1991.

Morgan, T. J. and Prys Morgan. Welsh Surnames. Cardiff, University of Wales Press, 1985.

Reaney, P.H. and R. M. Wilson. A Dictionary of English Surnames.

Withycombe, E.G., The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names , 3rd Edition. London, Oxford University Press, 1977.

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