COLLEGE OF HERALDS
1 October 2017,
OF PRESENTATION Kingdom
Their Royal Majesties Áilgheanán
Baroness Genevieve de Lironcourt, Aten Principal Herald; Heralds in
the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to
All Whom These Presents Come,
from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Brickbat Herald and Parhelium
Herald for the Kingdom of Atenveldt!
is the October 2017 Atenveldt Letter of Presentation.
Please have commentary to me by 20 October 2017.
Hut: The October 2017 Heraldry
Hut is tentatively scheduled for Friday,
20 October, 7:30 PM.
following are returned by the Atenveldt CoH for further work, Ocotber
Kyara Fae Ultaig
(BoA): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Or,
a fess sable, overall two candles argent, enflamed gules.
submission forms REALLY need to be filled out in pen, and made
complete as possible. Date submitted and consulting herald
information are very valuable. Documentation is a given.
it is claimed that the client's legal name is Saoirse Kyara Fae
Mullan, no documentation was provided for the name.
must have good contrast with the field. Although there is fine
contrast with the sable fess on the Or field, because the candles are
overall, they need good contrast as well, and argent candles on an Or
field do not.
RETURNED for name documentation and contrast issues
on the device.
(BoA): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Argent, a mermaid purpure maintaining
a sun Or and a decrescent azure, a double tressure sable.
documentation was provided for the name, other than it is meant to
mean “star” (no language given).
also violates PN.2.B.
A registerable personal name must be made up of at
least two name phrases:
a given name and at least one byname (which may appear to be a second
given name). While it is easy to document individuals who are
identified only with a single given name, we do not allow the
registration of single element personal names. Individuals may use
those names, but may not register them.
device seems to be free of conflict; however, it must be accompanied
by a name submission.
following submissions appear in the September 2017 Atenveldt Letter
was provided by Basil Dragonstrike, Christian
Jorgensen af Hilsonger,
Coblaith Muimnech, Etienne
ab Adam, Kolosvari Arpadne Julia, Kryss
Magnus von Lübeck, Maridonna Benvenuti, and Michael Gerard
de Westminster and Lachlann Dougal Graeme (Mons
Tonitrus): NEW BADGE: (Fieldless)
Three chevronels couped and braced counterermine.
names were registered January 2006 and February 2009, respectively.
Cathan Ultaig (BoA): NEW DEVICE: Gules, a bend sinister
bevilled between a wolf's head couped contourny and an axe reversed
maintained by a hand couped argent.
name is registered as Cathán
Ultaig; it was registered October 2009.
ab Adam commented that more info about the hand is needed in the
a bend sinister bevilled between a wolf's head couped contourny and
an axe reversed maintained by a sinister hand fesswise reversed
and added “ I'm a bit concerned that this might be slot machine,
with three types of charge (wolf's head, axe, hand) in the secondary
charge group. I couldn't find a relevant precedent (post the Aug 2015
maintained/sustained rule change) about whether held charges count as
a different secondary charge group from the secondary charge holding
von Lübeck found a recent acceptance example with a primary charge
and a maintained charge for Rosa Linda degli Uccelli, Gules,
on an owl affronty maintaining in its talons a rose slipped and
leaved argent, a heart gules and in chief a cross bottony and a
fleur-de-lys Or. [January 2016 LoAR, A-East]., so that “This
device does not violate SENA A3D2a, "slot machine" armory,
which means a design having more than two types of charge in a single
There is now a question as to a
primary charge's maintained charge counting as a secondary charge
group vs. a secondary charge itself maintaining a charge.
Elizabeth Sutherland (Mons Tonitrus): NEW DEVICE CHANGE:
Purpure, on a pile inverted between two natural dolphins haurient
repectant argent a fleur-de-lys sable.
name was registered November 2011.
If registered, the client's
current device, Purpure, on a pile inverted between two natural
dolphins haurient repectant argent a mullet sable., is to be
retained as a badge.
Laurence Du Bosc (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE:
Quarterly gules and purpure, a cross counter-compony sable and
argent, in chief two lions couchant addorsed regardant Or.
cannot find this spelling of the given name. However, it appears in
a number of variant spellings (Geffray
1162-3, all taken from the Middle English Dictionary). The MED also
1475. While none of these show an
in the name, ffride wlffsdotter notes that Google cites multiple
instances of the statement "Jeffroie DuBois, a Norman Knight who
accompanied William the Conqueror (Duke of Normandy)," which may
explain why the submitter has requested authenticity for "11th
(Tir Ysgithr): NEW DEVICE CHANGE: Argent,
a butterfly azure, a bordure azure semy of heart argent.
the Just (Twin Moons): NEW ALTERNATE NAME, Just Mark, and
NEW BADGE: Sable, a hanging balance and a chief embattled argent.
wlffsdotter demonstrates the name elements:
Just Benny, male,
christened 1544, St Just in Roseland, Cornwall, England. Batch no.
Pollard, male, christened 1546, St Just in Roseland, Cornwall,
England. Batch no.
Mark, male, married 1586, Saint Minver, Cornwall, England. Batch no.
client desires a male name and will not accept Major or Minor name
Orosz (Twin Moons): NEW
NAME and DEVICE: Quarterly vert and azure, a cross nebuly
argent surmounted by a camal rampant Or.
is a female given name This spelling was documented by Kolosvari
Arpadne Julia in Hungary (in Latin) in 1272 (Fehértói, Árpád-kori
személynévtár, s.n. Rebeka),
seen in the LoAR for
Sidó, March 2014. This cams from Női
neveink az Árpád-korban Az Árpád-kori személynévtár
by Jurkó Edina
has p. 29 of the PDF
was the wife of Stephanus Pritz and the mother of Catharina Pritz,
who was baptized 11 Nov 1556 in Dunafoöldvár,
Tolna, Hungary (Hungary, Catholic Church Records, 1636-1895,"
: 21 July 2017),
The client desires a female name and it most interested in the
language/culture of the name; she would like it authentic for
Kolosvari Arpadne Julia: “Dunaföldvár
have church records going back to 1556. (The Ottomans used the
stones of the ruined abbey to build themselves a tower there in the
mid-1500s.) The date was mis-indexed; it's actually 1856
“Orosz 'Russian, Ruthenian' is a very common surname in
Hungary. Kázmér dates the header spelling Orosz
to 1514, 1522, and 1588, and the most common period spelling Oroz
as early as 1332.
“There's my ethnic bynames article
which mentions Oroz
as the most common spelling and the earliest date of 1332 for the
name; that plus a construction argument based on other mentioned
most-common-in-period spellings, such as Cherkesz
should be enough to get Orosz
(especially given that I can then confirm its period-ness in
Szamota István, 1906. Magyar
714 sn. Orosz
Blasius Oroz 1426
Jacobi dicti Oroz
Ladislai Oroz 1453
Petro Oroz 1470
Orosz Miklós 1602
“I just noticed that the submitter requests authenticity. Given
the 1272 date for Rebeka,
even 1332 for Oroz
is a bit of a stretch (fifty years: two generations), but it would
unquestionably be better than the late-period Orosz.
I do wonder whether Rebeka shows up in the Anjou-age name list by
Mariann Slíz -- she has been adding her material to the DMNES, but
as far as I can tell she's only gotten up to M. I would not be
totally surprised by a post-Reformation (but pre-17c.) Rebeka, but I
have not found such a citation. If I did, then Orosz
would be a good spelling to go with it.”
(BoA): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Sable,
a horned and fange death's head, on a chief argent,three horned and
fanged death's heads gules.
was a great deal of discussion on this name Makhdoom. It was used
by the descendants of Pirs,
Quraysh Tribe, politicians and landlords in the in Pakistani
provinces of Punjab
There is the likelihood that Makhdoom was a title
given to, and not a name personally associated with an individual.
There are some instances of Makhdoom associated with people
(including a man in the petroleum business, a physician from
Illinois, and a Pakistani model), but they are all 20th
C./post-period persons. If this element in period was used
as a title alone, it violates SENA PN.4.
B. 1. Use of Elements that Appear to Be Titles:
Names may not contain an element or group of elements that create
the appearance of a claim to have a specific protected rank or title
that the submitter does not possess within the Society, even if that
name element or elements are attested. A number of bynames based
on documented Middle English ones were suggested by ffride
the event that this submission is returned.
There was somewhat
less commentary on the device, other than how to accurately describe
the charges. Whether the combination of it and the literal
pronunciation of the name, or the perceived excessive religious
reference and religious offense have to be decided by Wreath.
(TM): NEW NAME CHANGE, from Seán
original name submission was registered with this commentary:
“Submitted as Seán
Glenny, the name
conflicts with one of the submitter's legal use names, [redacted].
There is insufficient difference in the sound of these two names for
the submission to be registerable.
“However, the name can be
made registerable by addressing his request for a name authentic for
13th C Ireland. While we cannot make this name authentic for the
13th century (because we do not have any examples of the name Seán
before the early 14th century), we can change the name to fully
Irish Gaelic form, which will change the sound sufficiently to
provide enough difference from the legal use name to make the name
byname Glenny was documented as the submitter's legal surname. The
Gaelic form of Glenny is an
Gleanna, which is
dated to 1592 in Mari Elspeth nic Brian "Index of Names in
Irish Annals". The same article also has 16th C examples of
Seán. We have changed the name to
Seán an Gleanna, an
authentic 16th C Irish Gaelic name, in order to register it and to
partially fulfill the submitter's authenticity request.”
Administrative Handbook.III.A.10. Name Used by the Submitter Outside
the Society - “No name will be registered to a submitter if it is
identical to a name used by the submitter for purposes of
identification outside of a Society context. This includes legal
names, common use names, trademarks, and other items registered with
mundane authorities that serve to identify an individual or group.
This restriction applies to Society branches as well as individuals.
Thus, a branch cannot use the name of a significant location (a town
or county, for example) within its borders. This restriction is
intended to help preserve a distinction between a submitter's
identity within the Society and the submitter's identity outside of
Under SENA, Sean doesn't conflict with John, with
differences in initial consonant and vowel (the initial commentary
and ruling in 2008 wasn't made under SENA).
(Ered Sul): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Per
fess gules and argent semy of shears, a fess wavy sable and in chief
a fish Or.
name is Old Norse. Sólveig
is a feminine
name found in "Viking Names found in Landnámabók,"
Aryanhwy merch Catmael,
is a river in Southern Iceland, in Árnessýsla
Co. It is referenced in the Landnámabók.
The word frá
is the preposition, “from,” associated with place-names such as
used for period locales like rivers and farms. Prepositions
like this are moderately common in locative bynames, but to indicate
place of origin rather than place of resedence: both it and ór
can be translated “from” in this context; frá
is a cognate with the English from.
as tu Mika-Mysliwy