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Kingdom of Atenveldt
Heraldic Submissions Page

(administered by the Brickbat Herald)


Unto Their Royal Majesties Cosmo and Elzbieta; Dame Anita de Challis, Acting Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,

Greetings from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Parhelium Herald!

This is the June 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Presentation (it's a little early because these were submissions accepted at the Kingdom Collegium, and I'd like to include them in the June Letter of Intent, if possible). It precedes the external Letter of Intent that will contain the following submissions that are presented here, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry and consultation. You can send commentary to me privately at or join “Atenveldt Submissions Commentary” at Yahoo! ( ) and post there. (Any commentary is likely be included in the next month's Letter of Presentation so that all may learn from it, and we can see how additional documentation or comments may have influenced a submission.) Please try to have commentary to me by 12 June 2009.

Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too:

Consultation Table at Kingdom Collegium: Many thanks to Helena de Argentoune (and scanner...oh, yay!) and to Michaelis Aurelius, Moonbeam Pursuivant, for their dedicated hours at the Consultation Table; it was a pleasant surprise to see the Table up and running by the time I got there after my two Basic Onomastics and Armory classes (thanks also to Symond Bayard for setting up things and to Seamus mac Rhiain for his work there as well, and to Safaya, Twin Palm Pursuivant, who was the event steward and gave us plenty of space for consultation, indoors and mostly cool!).

The Table was very well received, and we were busy all day on Saturday. I suspect that the same thing would've happened if we'd been able to have it on Sunday (maybe that's a hidden blessing!).

Laurel Actions: Submissions that appear in the November 2008 Atenveldt Letter of Intent were acted upon at the Laurel meetings of March 2009. The results are found at the end of this report.

Please consider the following submissions for the June 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

Bartholomew of Wolfetwain (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW BADGE

(Fieldless) In pale a tree issuant from a wooden bucket all proper.

The name was registered February 1981.

Cerdic of Anglesey (Barony of Atenveldt): CHANGE OF HOLDING NAME, “Cerdic of Atenveldt,” and NEW BADGE

(Fieldless) A triskele per pale sable and argent.

Originally submitted as Cerdic Logan of Anglesey, the name was returned by Laurel December 2005: “This name is two steps from period practice. First, it uses the Old English name Cerdic with Middle English bynames. Second, we have been unable to find documentation for the name Cerdic later than the mid 6th C. This means there is a more than 500 year gap between it and the earliest dates found for the bynames. His armory was registered under the holding name Cerdic of Atenveldt.” The name is English. Cerdic is a masculine given name, the name of the traditional founder of the West Saxon kingdom (p. 61, Withycombe, 3rd edition., s.n. Cedric). Wikipedia gives the dates of Cerdic, King of Wessex and its traditional founder of the kingdom, as 519–534.

Anglesey is an island situated off the northwest coast of Wales, separated from the mainland by the Menai Strait; it is known as Ynys Môn in Welsh. It was a major grain-growing region during the Middle Ages ( ). The Wikipedia entry for Anglesey notes, “Historian and author Dr. John Davies argues that it was during the 10th C. that the Norse name for Môn, Anglesey, came into existence; the name was later adopted into English after Anglo-Norman occupiers arrived to conquer the island during the Norman invasions of Gwynedd.” If this is the case, then the two elements might just be close enough in period to be compatible, or at least just one step from period practice and so registerable.

The badge uses elements and tinctures of his registered device, Sable, a chevron between four triskeles three and one argent.

Charles of the Jacs (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW BADGE

Per chevron inverted throughout ploye' embattled sable and argent, in chief in pale a cubit arm issuant from sinister proper and a she-monkey statant affronty, arms raised, fesswise Or.

The name was registered January 1973.

This is actually a very old badge, supposedly accepted in the Dim Times with the promise of getting it registered. It never was, and so it's being presented here as a new submission

Cathán (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW NAME

The name is Irish Gaelic. All elements are found in “Index of Names in Irish Annals: Masculine Given Names,” Mari Elspeth nic Bryan ( ).

While is found as an element in a number of documented masculine Irish Gaelic names (Cú Dub, Cú Luachra, Cú Mara, Cú Roí), with meaning “hound,” and the subsequent names meaning 'black hound' for Cú Dub; 'hound of Lúchair' (a district in ancient Kerry) for Cú Luachra; 'hound of the Ulstermen' for Cú Ulad; and 'hound of the sea,” for Cú Mara, there are no examples of standing alone as a proper name. Considering Cú Dub does mean 'black hound,' and Cú Allaid, 'wild hound,' it might be argued that plain old is plausible, with physical descriptives merely being added to 'hound.' Other descriptives tend to associate the 'hound' with geographical locations (the lake, the rocky area, the plain, or a district) or with groups such as the Ulstermen. However, there is a Cú Ríán dated to 1053, and in this case, Ríán is a masculine Middle Irish Gaelic name dated from 895 to 1016. Conceivably, Cathán could be formed in a similar manner, as Cathán is a masculine Middle Irish Gaelic name dated 914 to 1036.

If all of this “works,” I think there still may be a problem with the name either missing a byname (were Cathán considered a given name than just happens to be made up of two separate words, as is the case for the many citations above), or that it is missing a patronymic particle, with as the given name and Cathán the patronym (something to the effect of Cú mac Catháin). The client desires a male name and is most interested in the meaning, “hound of Cathán.”

Dalla of the Misty Forest (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW DEVICE CHANGE

Per pall argent, azure and vert, in pale a stag's attire proper and a tree eradicated argent.

The name was registered November 2004.

If this new submission is registered, the client wishes to retain her current device Per pall argent, azure and vert, in pale an arrow fesswise sable and a tree eradicated argent., as a badge.

Giles Chadwik Richardson (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW BADGE

Per pale argent and sable, a tower sable.

The name was registered October 1990.

The badge uses elements from the client's registered device, Per pale argent and azure, a tower and on a chief sable, three bezants.

Ívarr Grahauk (Sundragon): NEW NAME

The name is Old Norse. Ívarr is a masculine given name found in “Viking Names found in Landnámabók,” Aryanhwy merch Catmael ( ). The byname is a coined formation, “gray hawk.” inn grá, “gray,” is found in “Viking Bynames found in the Landnámabók,” Aryanhwy merch Catmael ( ); bynames such as gráfeldarmúli, “graycloak-snout,” and gráfeldr, “gray fur coat/cloak,” appear to drop the terminal -i when forming compounds. Hauknefr, “hawk-nose, hawk-beak,” suggests that hauk is ON for “hawk”.

This looks like a fine construction, expect that we've run into issues with Norse bynames with the construction <color + animal> apparently wasn't done. In the return of Æsa gullhrafn's name submission by Laurel (October 2003): No documentation was presented and none was found to support gullhrafn 'gold-raven' as a plausible byname in Old Norse. The Old Norse byname gullskeggr 'gold-beard', cited in the LoI, shows a physical description referring to the color of a man's beard. It does not support an Old Norse byname constructed [gold] + [animal]. Gunnvör silfrahárr provided a copious list of Old Norse bynames referring to animals and summarized her findings: On the byname <gullhrafn>, if we examine the recorded bynames from sources such as Landnámabók and the runic inscriptions, those that do contain animal names are overwhelmingly the animal name only. Otherwise the animal name is combined with a word describing a body-part. There are no <animal + adjective> or <adjective + animal> by-names in these sources. Lacking evidence that gullhrafn is a plausible byname in Old Norse, it is not registerable.

Sigh. The client desires a male name and is most interested in having a 10th C. Viking/Old Norse name. He will not accept Major Changes. Sigh.

Lorelei of Lockehaven (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW AUGMENTATION OF ARMS

Per pale azure and Or, a candel argent, sconced sable, enflamed proper, fimbriated counterchanged and as an augmentation in canton a sun in splendor Or.

The name was registered July 1974.

The original device, Per pale azure and Or, a candle argent, sconced sable, enflamed proper, fimbriated counterchanged., was registered July 1974. The Augmentation was granted 6 May 2006 by TRM Aaron and Alisandra.

Lughán Ségháncathán (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Quarterly vert and sable, a wing argent.

The name is Irish Gaelic. After that, I'm stumped. It isn't constructed in the classic style of Irish Gaelic names, particularly as the client is taking the literal translation of name elements to come up with “bright hawk of battle”. All elements are taken from Irish Names, which can no longer be used as a single documentation source. Lughán is a masculine given name, a diminutive of Lug and the modern form of Lugán; Ó Corráin and Maguire cite an Irish St. Lugán with the feast-day of 16 August (p. 125 s.n. Lugán). Séaghán is a masculine given name, again a modern form of the older Ségán; it is cited as an early, rare name, coming from “hawk” (pp. 163-4 s.n. Ségán). It appears in Mari's article as an Oghamic Irish (pre-700) masculine name Cathán is a masculine given name, possibly coming from “battle” (p. 47). This does appear in “Index of Names in Irish Annals: Masculine Given Names,” Mari Elspeth nic Bryan ( ) as Middle Irish Gaelic and dated 914-1036; this would require that the earlier forms of the other elements, if they could be documented, be used. (There might be a step from period practice in combining Oghamic Irish with Middle Irish Gaelic).

The byname has combined two masculine names into an epithet meaning “hawk of battle”. In “Quick and Easy Gaelic Names Formerly Published as "Quick and Easy Gaelic Bynames" 3rd Edition, Sharon Krossa states: “Descriptive bynames were sometimes used in both Gaelic Scotland and Ireland. These bynames were usually adjectives describing concrete rather than fanciful characteristics, such as beag (small), reamhar (stout), mór (big), ruadh (red), bán (fair), and dubh (black)” ( ) so this is a very unlikely byname. If the first two elements of the name could be dated/cited from a reputable source other than Irish Names, this might be feasible as something like Lugán mac Ségáin Ó Catháin, and the client could make up any story about them that suits him. The client desires a male name and is most interested in the meaning of the name.

Norah Rose Tenpenny (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and DEVICE

Per chevron purpure and Or, two horseshoes Or and a thistle proper.

Norah is an Irish borrowing of the English Honora; the period Annora is dated to 1187 to 1316 in “Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surname,” Talan Gwynek ( ).
Rose is a popular feminine given name dated 1202 through 1525, in Talan's article. [Alternatively, Rose can also be considered a late English byname with this spelling dated 1604 and 1609.] Tenpenny is a byname found in MacLysaght, s.n. (Mac) Timpany, undated.  Tempany, undated in Reaney, has earlier "tympanist/drummer" bynames that supposedly match the Irish meaning, dating to 1278 Timpon and 1254 Tynnepanne. Could this be justified as a coined byname, citing various "penny" bynames in Reaney (of course, nothing dated with the spelling of "penny")?  There are several "penny" names under Twopenny in Reaney (again, the most modern/recognizable spelling is undated), names that refer to two, three, four and five pennies. (This lady is rich, I tell ya! Rolling in pennies!) The client desires a female name, and is most interested in the sound of the name. She notes that she'd like it authentic for language and/or culture, but none is given (she wants an Irish name, but she isn't interested in an Irish Gaelic one). If necessary for registration, she will accept Annora Rose Tenpenny.

Yasmeen bint Malik (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW NAME

The name is Arabic. The spelling Yasmeen has been registered once (in 1985); Yasmin has been registered several times (in the 1990s). Malik is a masculine 'ism found in “Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices,” Da'ud ibn Auda ( ), and this typical patronymic name construction is found there as well. The client desires a female name and is most interested in the language/culture of the name (Arabic).

The following submissions were registered by the S.C.A. College of Arms, March 2009:

Angelina de Gibraltar. Name change from Angelina al-Jabaliyya and device. Argent, a chevron cotised gules between two crosses moline and a horse salient contourny azure.

Her previous name, Angelina al-Jabaliyya, is retained as an alternate name. Please instruct the submitter to draw larger, more prominent crosses.

Antoinette Isabeau du Dauphiné. Name.

Arria Felix. Name.

Fergus MacInnes. Device. Sable, eight oars in annulo handles to center Or and on a chief argent a cannon barrel reversed sable.

This armory is for the Fergus MacInnes whose name was registered in July 2001 via Atenveldt, and not the Fergus MacInnes registered in June 2001 via Æthelmearc.

Iseult inghean uí Threasaigh. Name and device. Or, a sword purpure between two hummingbirds rising respectant, beaks crossed in saltire surmounting the sword's point vert.

Submitted as Iseult Ó Treasaigh, Gaelic bynames need to match the gender of the given names they modify. The appropriate feminine form of Ó Treasaigh is inghean uí Threasaigh. We have changed the name to Iseult inghean uí Threasaigh in order to register it. This names combines French and Gaelic, which is a step from period practice. The use of hummingbirds is a step from period practice.

Josephine du Lac. Name change from Josefa du Lac.

Josephine is the submitter's legal given name.

Nemonna Vicana. Name and device. Argent, in pale a hand inverted winged gules and a fleur-de-lys, a bordure dovetailed vert.

Commenters are reminded that winged objects are single charges, per the February 2007 precedent: A winged object is a single charge, thus there are only two types of charges in the primary charge group - the decrescents and the winged sword. [Elyas Tigar, 02/2007, A-Artemisia]. A hand is an object, just as a sword is. Therefore, this design is not slot-machine heraldry.

Tatiana Verlioni. Name change from Marguerite Bouchard.

This was pended on the July 2008 LoAR because no evidence was provided that the 3rd C martyred saint Tatiana was known in a culture which is compatible with Italian. Siren provides information that Saint Tatiana was venerated in Byzantium in the 15th C. This is sufficient to register Tatiana in Byzantine Greek contexts. Because there was significant contact between Byzantium and Italiy, Greek and Italian can be combined in the same name, though this combination is a step from period practice.

Her previous name, Marguerite Bouchard, is retained as an alternate name.

Thomas de Revele. Device. Gules, in pall a standing balance between three crosses couped Or.

The following submissions were returned by the College of Arms for further work, March 2009:

Micahel Corey. Device. Per saltire azure and gules, in pale a pheon inverted within and conjoined to an annulet, and an anchor fouled with its line Or.

This was pended on the July 2008 LoAR to discuss whether the pheon and annulet were in the same charge group. Were they alone on the field, they would be considered a primary charge of a pheon and a surrounding secondary annulet. Commenters pointed out that the definition of a primary charge includes that it be the central, dominant motif. We are ruling that, since the pheon and annulet are not in the center of the design, they should be considered to be in the same group. Therefore, this design has three charges (pheon, annulet, and anchor) in a single charge group, and is returned for violating section VIII.1.a of the Rules for Submission, which says that "three or more types of charges should not be used in the same group."

Additional commentary from the College of Arms concerning charges within annulets:

A widget within an annulet will continue to be considered a primary widget and a secondary annulet, or a primary annulet and secondary widget, when those charges are the only charges on the field. Which of the two charges is primary depends, as always, on the emblazon.

When both are present in a design as part of a primary charge group, or where they would be expected to be a secondary charge, the widget and annulet will both be considered part of the same group.

These answers do not depend on the types of charges in question.

Heralds should note that using a widget within an annulet is not a step from period practice. Multiple instances of items within a single or multiple concentric annulets appear in Stemmario Trivulziano (plates 178, 194, 225, and 352), Siebmacher (plates 63, 152, and 156), Humphrey-Smith's Anglo-Norman Armory Two (page 335), and other heraldic references.

Thanks for your input for this “in-between” Letter of Presentation!

Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy

c/o Linda Miku

2527 East 3rd Street

Tucson AZ 85716

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