Unto Their Royal Majesties Walrick and Cecelia; Duchess Elzbieta Rurikovskaia, Aten Principal Herald; the Heralds in the Atenveldt College of Heralds; and to All Whom These Presents Come,

Greetings from Marta as tu Mika-Mysliwy, Parhelium Herald!

This is the February 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Presentation. It precedes the external Letter of Intent that will contain the following submissions that are presented here, asking questions of submitters and local heralds who have worked with them; if these questions are not addressed, the submission may be returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds. I accept online commentary, in addition to questions pertaining to heraldry and consultation. Please have commentary to me 20 February 2009.

Estrella War: It's on the horizon! There will be 35 HOURS of Heraldic Consultation at this year's War (10 AM-5 PM Wednesday-Sunday), which means we need heralds...lots of them. If you're an old pro at consultation, sorta-kinda experienced at it, or new to it, there will be space for you. (Even if you don't think you can do much more than hand resources out, run a photocopy or color, there will be space for you.) If you are a local herald, give serious thought to spending some time at the Table – this is an invaluable experience for learning how to consult with clients and to learn what resources should be used and should be avoided. If you are a local herald and have deputies, or know people in your group who've shown an interest in onomastics or armory (or both), encourage them to work at the Table. I know there's lots of fun stuff to do at the War, and in its own peculiar way, this is Fun Stuff, too.

The vast majority of submissions at Estrella come from residents of our own Kingdom of Atenveldt – the past few years the submissions from Atenveldt number about 100. We've been blessed with excellent heralds from Caid, Artemesia, the Outlands, and a number of other kingdoms who spend a lot of time and energy traveling to the War, and then work cheerfully and tirelessly with our clients. We need to step up and donate some of our own “War Time” to the cause, too.

Lady Helena de Argentoune will the in charge of Heralds' Point this year. For more information on the Consultation Table or other aspects of the Point, please contact her at hrjeffcott@aol.com .

Submissions Website: You can send electronic commentary on the most recent internal LoIs through the site, in addition to any questions you might have. Current submission forms (the ONLY forms that can be used) can be found on the site. Please let your local populace know about the site, too: atensubmissions.nexiliscom.com.

Recent Actions by the College of Arms: the results of the Laurel meetings from November 2008 (covering Atenveldt submissions found in the 30 July 2008 Letter of Intent) are posted at the end of this report.

Please consider the following submissions for the January 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

Dubhchobhlaigh inghean Eoin uí Ealaighthe (Ered Sul): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, May 2008.

Vert, a fleece and in base two filled drop spindles argent.

The name was registered May 2008.

The previous device, Vert, a fleece and two filled drop spindles one and two argent., was returned “for conflict with the device for Helva of Saxony, Vert, a full drop-spindle argent; there is a single CD for changing the number of charges. The blazon on the LoI, Vert, a fleece and in base two filled drop spindles in fess argent, suggests a really big fleece and two spindles shoved into base. In point of fact, the fleece barely fills the space above the per fess line, and the spindles are about as large as they can be in the space remaining, making this three co-primary charges. Her previous submission really did have a primary and two secondary charges.” The resubmission has the fleece clearly the primary charge; between this and the identification clearly a fleece (rather than a live sheep with a belt around its belly), we hope that this is now registerable.

Einarr atgørvimaðr (Twin Moons): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, January 1999

Per chevron purpure and argent, three Thor's hammers in fess argent and a bear rampant sable.

The name was registered July 1997.

His original submission, Argent, a bear rampant sable, on a chief enmanché argent and purpure, three Thor's hammers counterchanged., was returned because “the only documentation presented for a chief enmanché was found in Eugene Zieber's Heraldry of America, and the usage there is out of period. The term enmanché can be found in other heraldic sources, but not for a chief that looks anything like what was submitted. Barring documentation that a chief divided in this fashion was done in period, this must be returned.” That problem has been resolved.

The following submissions appear in the January 2009 Atenveldt Letter of Intent:

This month's commentary is provided by Helena de Argentoune, Deputy Parhelium [HdA], Katherine Throckmorton [KT], Stefania Krakowska [SK] and Taran the Wayward [TW].

Ælfwin Ironhair (Granholme): BADGE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, October 2008

Sable, in fess a human skull facing to sinister and a bottle bendwise sinister inverted argent.

The name was registered July 2004.

The original badge submission was returned “because commenters were unable to recognize the charge to sinister as a bottle. Several thought it was a club, others were entirely unable to recognize it without reading the blazon. The shape also does not match those of period bottles. Period bottles were described on the March 2006 Cover Letter.”. The bottle has been redrawn.

Bearach Black of Clan Lamont (Tir Ysgithr): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Per chevron sable and vert, two caltraps and a lion rampant tail nowed Or.

Per the RfS, no documentation is a cause for return. If he had included even a little note declaring his intentions and desires for the name, we could’ve accepted that.  However, with no documentation and no indication of his desires for the name, we cannot proceed.  Recommend returning. [HdA]

The submitter (and whoever helped him prepare this) should be reminded that documenting the name is the job of the submitter.
Since X of Clan Y has not been registered in well over a decade, and, according to Krossa's Quick and Easy Gaelic Bynames there isn't any support for the pattern, I don't think this is regisertable. Since 'Black' could be a descriptive byname, it might be possible to get the submitter something close, but I think this will need to be returned for further work and consultation. [KT]

Katherine is correct on this. I find the following Precedents:

“Submitted as ... of Clan Cameron, The available evidence indicates that the way membership in such a clan (no matter what "clan" word was used for the group) was indicated in a personal name was by the use of ó (or older ua) plus the clan eponym in the genitive, not by using a construction equivalent to 'of Clan X'. We have removed the word clan, and changed the name to the closest registerable form to the originally submitted form. (Isabel Kelsey de Cameron, 11/98 p. 1)”

“... the construction of Clan X has been disallowed since June 1998. [Aeron Aschennen of Clan MacKenzie, 05/00, R-Ansteorra]”

“There are several problems with the name...there is no evidence of the use of Clan <X> in names... [Brenna Michaela Sine Macghie of Clan MacKay, 04/00, R-Atenveldt]” [MMM]

Consider Pehr Fogtilain: Per chevron sable and vert, two tankards and a flame Or., 1 cd for change of primary, 1 cd for change of secondary charges.; Aleksandra Alekseeva: Per chevron gules and sable, two mullets of six points and a galleon Or.(The armorial suggests that caltrops and mullets are considered together), 1 cd for the field colors, and 1 cd for the change to the Galleon;

Domenico Forestani: Per chevron sable and vert, a chevron between two compass stars Or and a natural tiger rampant Or marked sable., 1 cd for the chevron… again not sure of the caltrop/mullet cd. also not sure on the difference we give for a Natural Tiger and a Lion.. Maybe ½ cd for that?; Katherine Niemann: Per chevron vert and sable, two mullets of four points and an open book Or., 1 cd for the field, 1 cd for the change of primary charge. [TW]

I also would recommend this being "Per chevron enhanced" as drawn. [TW]

These are all clear. Domenico's armory is the most intriguing. There is 1 CD for change of primary charges (chevron vs. caltraps and lion) and CD for the addition of secondary charges on Domenico's device (the compass stars and tiger); Bearach's armory has no secondary charges! (Even though these look very, very similar with the shared tinctures and the same field division.

There's no such thing as a ½ CD...either there's a CD or there isn't. All felines are the same, so there's no difference between a tiger and a lion, in theory...but there are those stripes! I'm not going to stick my neck out here; if the tiger with barry Or and sable, there'd be a CD. But is there a difference between a leopard Or spotted sable and a lion Or? That's just as much a question. At least we don't have to contend with it here. This might be worth scrounging through the Laurel Precedents. Since felids are so popular, I can't believe this issue hasn't come up before.

A per chevron line of division is a little more forgiving, moving up and down and even changing its angle to accommodate the charges on the field. I'd tend to make the caltraps larges, and will likely be doing this, as the forms have to be redrawn and colored NON-ELECTRONICALLY (grrr). [MMM]

Diana d'Winchcombe (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Sable, two lightning bolts crossed in saltire surmounted by a pegasus rampant argent.

"d'" is a scribal abbreviation, which the CoA doesn't register. Other than that, Diana *de* Winchcombe is is lovely 13th century name. [KT]

I don’t believe that “de” elides to “d’ “ before a consonant.  I believe it does this only when before a vowel. (Ex, “d’Artagnan”) As such, “d’Winchcombe” is not correct and “de Winchcombe” would be.  The RfS requires that names be grammatically correct, but we should get her consent before changing it. [HdA]

The January 2003 LoAR says: "The only evidence presented of Diana used by humans in period is from Withycombe (p. 40-41, s.n. Diana), which lists Diana Luttrell as being born in 1580." The S. Gabriel article, quoting from the introduction of Reaney and Wilson concerning classical names in England, particularly in the High Middle Ages, says that that 1256 citation for Diana comes from AssNB (Assize Rolls, specific one not given in the list of Abbreviations) ( Reaney, P. H., & R. M. Wilson. A Dictionary of English Surnames

(London: Routledge, 1991; Oxford University Press, 1995); s.nn. Arden, Denis, pp. Xl-xli.) ( http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi/1529.txt ).

Upon further consultation with the client, she prefers the 1207 dated spelling de Winchecumbe, found in Reaney and Wilson. [MMM]

This comment is in regards to the device of this person.  It looks good in concept, but that is an awful tiny winged horse!  Shouldn't it be the main identifyible charge? [SK]

I will assume that the Pegasus is the primary charge here--but would STRONGLY suggest that it be larger on the field, and that the

lightning bolts be drawn to show that they are throughout the field (rather than starting away from the Pegasus) [TW] I agree that this could benefit from a redrawing, from the points you mention. [MMM]

David van den Storm : (Fieldless) Two lightning bolts in saltire, overall a tower argent., 1 cd for field, 1 cd for change of primary charge the tower.; Ian Úlfsson : Azure, two lightning bolts crossed in saltire, overall a wolf's head palewise erased argent., 1 cd for field, 1 cd for the change of primary charge. These were the closest I found. [TW]

The lightning bolts are not connected – either to themselves OR to the Pegasus.  Therefore, the Pegasus cannot surmount the lightening bolts.  In fact, the Pegasus is almost the same size as the lightning bolts so I can’t really see them as anything but co-primary.  So.  Reblazon: Sable, in saltire a Pegasus salient between four lightning bolts argent.

If she really wants the Pegasus to be surmounting the lightening bolts, then the lightning bolts need to be connected and the Pegasus needs to be larger. If she wants the Pegasus to be “between” four lightening bolts, then each lightening bolt needs to have points on both ends.

Recommend redrawing in either case. [HdA]

Further consultation with the client presented her with a redrawn emblazon that places the pegasus on two clearly crossed lightning bolts, with the limbs and wings of the monster adjusted to best identify it; the pegasus was also increased substantially in size, so that it is truly a co-primary charges with the bolts. [MMM]

Draco Havenblast (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Per pale sable and gules, a dragon passant argent.

A lot of information was provided on dragons and the constellation Draco, but this doesn't necessarily lend credence to Draco as a given name. However, Draco is a masculine given name dating to 1546 (Wilfried Seibick, Historishes Deutshes Vornamenbuch Band1 A-E, 1966, s.n. Drake). Havenblast is found in “Some Early Middle High German Bynames with Emphasis on Names from the Bavarian Dialect Area,” Brian Scott (

http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/Early_German_Bynames.html ); “The first element appears to be MHG haven ‘earthenware container, pot’; the second could be blâst ‘a snort, a blowing; flatulence’. It is dated to 1214 for a Rodolfus Havenblast.

The client is most interested in the meaning and language/culture of the name (“flatulence” in German), and he wishes it authentic for language/culture and time period of 13^th C. German.

So….the client wants a surname that equates to “whoopee cushion????” Ay yi yi. Draco is a plausible surname, certainly.  “Draco” meaning “dragon” in Latin. I have memory of seeing documentation for it as a surname. An old S. Gabriel article seems to support “Draco” as a given name, however: “You may be interested in "Draconius" (1) or "Draco" (2), which could have been used in France from the 8th to 10th centuries. In later centuries-- perhaps the 10th through 13th--the name "Dragon" and its diminutive "Dragonet" were used in southern France. (3)”[ http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?502+0 ] [HdA] Oooh, thank you for the S. Gabriel reference! [MMM]

A very quick check shows this clears of Rhys Terfan Greydragon: (Fieldless) A dragon passant argent charged on the shoulder with a cross moline purpure. There is one CD for fieldlessness and one CD for the removal of the tertiary charge.

Consider Volker von dem Walde: Per pale sable and gules, two dragons Or. May 2006 and no posture on the dragons?? Ok... Well 1 cd for count of dragons,… posture?? Um.. Default is Rampant, I'd assume so 1 for positioning. [TW] Yes, the default dragon is segreant (that's rampant for a beast or monster with wings). I am stunned that no one has called a conflict on this. [MMM]

Glyn d'Artois : Per pale embattled sable and gules, in dexter chief a cross formy Or. 1cd for embattled, 1cd for the primary

Valdemar Wendel Bayard : Per pale sable and gules, a beacon enflamed Or.

1cd for the change of color of the charge and 1cd for change of charge?

Katharina Dietrich von Villach : Per pale sable and gules, a boar's head erased to sinister argent.

1cd for change of charge only? [all TW] Complete difference of charge clears these armories with Draco's [HdA]

Consider Katrina Pietroff: Azure, a hydra statant argent. There's 1 CD for field difference, and if a hydra is wingless, 1 CD between winged vs. non-winged. However, consider Karina of the Far West: Azure, a wivern statant argent. There is only 1 CD present for changes to the field. None is given for statant vs. passant.  None given for dragon vs. wyvern (since in period rolls and depictions a dragon can routinely change between having two legs and having four legs). [HdA] I have contacted the client to see if he might consider adding an orle argent, which seems to clear the conflict with Karina (and helps with Katrina's) without introducing new ones; Draco is very amenable with adding the orle (yay!), so this will appear in the January LoI as Per pale sable and gules, a dragon passant within an orle argent. [MMM]

Ewout Gheretssoen (Sundrgaon): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, July 2008

Quarterly per fess wavy, barry wavy azure and argent, and gules, in bend sinister two comets bendwise sinister inverted argent.

The name was registered July 2008.

The original device submission, Quarterly barry wavy azure and argent, and gules, a comet bendwise sinister inverted argent., was returned for

conflict with the device of Chavah bat Mordechai, Per fess purpure and vert, a shooting star bendwise sinister argent. There is a CD for the field. However, shooting star is an SCA-defined term meaning comet inverted, thus the CD for changes to the field is the only difference. There has a been a slight redesign of the original device, and the complex per fess line eliminates the appearance of marshalling. Placing the comets completely on the gules portion of the field also eliminates the question on whether or not an argent comet can be used on this field due to the lack of contrast between the comet and the first and fourth quarters of the field. “...in bend sinister...” may not be required in the blazon, as placing them anywhere else on the field would raise this contrast issue again.

Jerome the True (Barony of Atenveldt): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Kingdom, December 2008: Vert, two scarpes erminois.

The mini-emblazon posted here appears to be computer-colored.  Computer-colored mini-emblazons risk being returned by the CoA. [HdA] I know; this was a PhotoShopped sketch that I sent to the client to see if he might be interested in something like this as a resubmission. [MMM]

Sabiha al-Nahdiyah (Tir Ysgithr): NEW CHANGE OF NAME from Siblla of Atenveldt

Nice Name. [KT]

Safaya bint Ahmet ibn Abdullah (BoAtenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Azure, in pale an ostrich plume quill pen fesswise and a decrescent argent, all within an orle of roses Or.

I misspelled the patronymic on the Letter of Presentation. She has it spelled as Ahmet. [MMM]

Nice name. I'm a little concerned about the identifiability of the ostrich quill pen, both as a pen as as a ostrich feather. If the lady desires something indicating that she is a scribe, would she consider a pen box? [KT]

The device is a bit cluttered.  I am unsure whether or not the feather is identifiable as drawn. No problem with the orle of roses. The roses are not conjoined so they are not a “chaplet” (which is a reserved charge). [HdA]

The following submissions are returned by the Atenveldt College of Heralds for further work, January 2009:

Angus MacLeod (Barony of Atenveldt): NEW NAME and DEVICE: Sable, a valknut between three compass stars elongated to base Or.

The submitter (and whoever helped him prepare this) should be reminded that documenting the name is the job of the submitter. That said, the name should be registerable based on the documentation from Black. Amazingly (given the popularity of Angus and MacLeod) there seems to be no conflict. [KT]

Per the RfS, no documentation is a cause for return. If he had included even a little note declaring his intentions and desires for the name, we could’ve accepted that.  However, with no documentation and no indication of his desires for the name, we cannot proceed.  Recommend returning. [HdA]

Ah, this was too good to be true. The name conflicts with This conflicts with Aonghus MacLeoid, registered August 1988. Upon further consultation with the client and presenting several period alternatives of multi-generational Scots name constructions (which are pretty dang cool and just about non-existent in SCA onomastics), plus a few names with descriptive bynames, he wishes to submit the name as Angus ulbh MacLeod. Ulbh, from MacBains Dictonary, http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/search.html .

Thorhalla Carlsdottir Bröberg: (Fieldless) A valknut Or., 1 cd for field and 1 for the compass stars; Ragnar Tryggvason: Gules, a valknut inverted Or., 1cd for Field, 1 cd for posture of the Valknut, and 1 cd for the compass stars; Sarah Thorarinsdottir: Per pale gules and sable, a valknut and a bordure Or.,1 cd for field, 1 cd for the removal of the ordinary, 1 cd for the addition of the stars; Grímr Eiríksson: Sable, a valknut inverted within a bordure Or., 1 cd for position of Valknut, 1 cd for removal of the Bordure, and one for the addition of the compass stars. Nicolai Wegener: Sable, a phoenix per pale Or and gules between three mullets Or. This one, I'm a bit concerned on. 1cd for the change of primary charge, but I don't know if we give difference for the compass stars versus the standard mullets. Even counting it as a ½ cd it wouldn't fly from my count. [TW] There's a complete change of primary charge, so this is clear. And I believe Helena mentioned that there is a CD between five-pointed mullets and eight-pointed ones. [MMM]

The valknut is too “solid.” A correctly drawn valknut has the field showing between the three interlaced triangles. In this emblazon, the interlaced triangles lay right up next to each other as though they are a solid piece of metal with a little detailing. Recommend redraw.  (And no, I’m not just being excessively picky here.  There’s a couple of valknuts up at the COA right now that are getting a similar hazing for this exact reason.) Recommend returning for redrawing. [HdA]

New issues have also cropped up, with the use of two SCA-compatible charges, the valknut AND the compass star. RfS 7.6.a. Compatible Charges - Charges that have not been documented to period may be ruled SCA-compatible; the use of an SCA-compatible charge is a step from period practice.

A ruling that a charge is SCA-compatible can change with new evidence. Charges that were in the past ruled a step from period practice may later be ruled unregisterable. Charges that were in the past ruled SCA-compatible because they were rare in period, or that have since been documented as period heraldic charges, are not a step from period practice. Examples of charges that are a step from period practice include compass stars, lightning bolts, pawprints, and valknuts. A submission (be it a name or a piece of armory) that is two steps from period practice will be returned. I will contact the client and see how he wishes to proceed. [MMM]

Name HELD to accompany device; Device RETURNED for being two steps from period practice.

Bearach Black of Clan Lamont: HOUSEHOLD NAME (for “Drakesguard”) and BADGE (?): Gyronny argent and vert, a dragon segreant Or.

There was no commentary on the name construction. I am returning it for the lack of any. [MMM]

Name RETURNED for lack of documentation; Armory RETURNED for conflict.

Olaf mj{o,}ksiglandi (Barony of Atenveldt): DEVICE RESUBMISSION from Laurel, August 2007: Purpure a ram's skull cabossed and in chief a drakkar Or.

While the consensus was that the client probably desires the skull to be the primary charge and the drakkar the secondary, I prefer to hear his desires directly from him, and redraw the submission in that manner, to reduce the possbility of return for unclear blazonry alone. [MMM]

Device RETURNED for charge clarification/redrawing.

The following submissions were registered by the S.C.A. College of Arms, November 2008:

Annya Sergeeva. Device. Argent, three eggs gules each charged with a Latin cross bottony argent, on a chief gules a cat couchant argent.

Please instruct the submitter that depictions of this device should be careful to draw eggs which are distinguishable from roundels.

Annya Sergeeva and Robert Heinrich. Joint badge. Argent, an egg gules charged with a Latin cross bottony argent within a torse wreathed Or and sable.

Dulcia le Fey. Name and device. Per bend sinister purpure and argent, three butterflies argent and a tree eradicated proper.

Ered Sûl, Barony of. Badge (see RETURNS for order name). Azure, on a mountain of three peaks vert, fimbriated and snow-capped argent, a torch Or.

This depiction of a mountain with snow, blazoned in this fashion, is grandfathered to the submitters.

James O Callan. Name and device. Per pale vert and Or, a vol and in chief a tricune counterchanged.

Submitted as Seamus O'Callan, the submitter requested authenticity for 12th C Ireland, desiring an Anglicized Gaelic form of the name. Seamus is the Gaelic form of James; in an Anglicized Gaelic name, we would expect to see James rather than the Gaelic form Seamus.

The byname O'Callan is an anglicized form which is found temp. Elizabeth I - James I. We have very few records of Anglicized Gaelic names before the 16th century, so we cannot say for sure whether O'Callan is appropriate for the 12th century. However, the earlier you go, the less appropriate the use of the apostrophe in the anglicized form is. We have therefore changed the name to James O_Callan to partially meet his request for authenticity.

Leah inghean Phadraig. Name and device. Per saltire Or and argent, three domestic cats courant in annulo gules.

Submitted as Leah ingen Padraig, the byname violated RfS III.1.a by combining Middle Irish ingen with Early Modern Irish Padraig. Additionally, in an Early Modern Irish feminine patronymic byname, Padraig lenites to Phadraig. We have changed the name to Leah inghean Phadraig in order to register it. Leah is the submitter's legal given name.

Luke Walker. Name and device. Per pale Or and purpure, in pale three triple-towered castles counterchanged.

Submitted as Luke Walker of Skye, this name was immediately evocative of Luke Skywalker of Star Wars fame. While the order of the elements has changed, the rearrangement of the elements is not sufficient to remove the appearance of an implicit claim to be that Luke; such implicit claims are not registerable per RfS I.3. The submitter indicated that if there was a problem with presumption, he preferred to have the second byname, of Skye, dropped. We have dropped the second byname in order to register the name, as Luke Walker_.

Marius Pelagius Calvus. Name and device. Per chevron inverted gules and azure, a Latin cross formy and a bordure dovetailed argent.

Please instruct the submitter to draw the line of division slightly lower.

Morgana Quarry. Badge. (Fieldless) An opinicus segreant purpure.

Nice badge!

Ragnarr of Atenveldt. Holding name and device. Ermine, a dragon rampant contourny azure maintaining in the sinister forefoot an awl palewise point to chief and in the dexter forefoot a human skull sable within a bordure per bend sinister sable and azure.

Submitted under the name Ragnarr skinnskrifari í Bládrekafirði, that name was returned on the June 2008 LoAR.

Ulrich Gotfrid. Name and device. Per bend sinister sable and argent, a bend sinister gules, in dexter chief a cross couped of chain Or.

Submitted as Ulrich Gottfried, both elements were documented to the 14th century and the submitter requested authenticity for 10th-12th C German. Talan Gwynek, "Some Early Middle High German Bynames" has Ulricus Dives 1174 (this is a Latinized form of the given name), Ulrich Scaphili 1155, and Gotfrid Chnobolohe 1165. On the basis of this, Ulrich Gotfrid is an authentic late 12th C name. We have changed the name to this form to meet his request for authenticity.

Vincent Matthew of Kilkenny. Name.

The following have been returned by the College of Arms for further work, November 2008:

Ered Sûl, Barony of. Order name Order of the Mountain Flame.

This is being returned for lack of documentation. No documentation was provided that mountain was used as an adjective in our period, much less one that could plausibly modify flame in an order name. This has been grounds for return in the past: [Order of the Mountain Hart] No evidence was given that "mountain" is a reasonable adjective to apply to a hart. While there are no doubt harts in the mountains, we know of no particular mountain variety. [Highland Foorde, Barony of, 10/99, R-Atlantia]

While the Barony already has registered to them the order name Order of the Mountain Lily, the grandfather clause cannot be appealed to here because the submitted name does not follow the construction Order of the Mountain [flower]. Furthermore, the LoI's documentation for the word flame being used to mean 'ignited gas' dates the term to c. 1684, which is well beyond our gray area. If the submitters would like to resubmit an order name containing references to both mountains and flames, we suggest they consider Order of the Mount and Flame. Both mounts and flames are standard heraldic charges, and the August 2005 Cover Letter cites the medieval order Order of the Ermine and the Ears of Corn. This supports the pattern Order of the <heraldic charge> and <heraldic charge> for order names.

Felipe Cuervo. Household name House Fénix de Oro.

The household name was documented as following the "inn-sign" pattern. While the LoI provided evidence for this pattern in English, no evidence was provided, either on the LoI or by the commenters, for the pattern in Spanish. Lacking such evidence, this household name is not registerable.

c/o Linda Miku

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